Starfighter Squadrons as Single Units

[garhkal]

I'm with C there. During the round, unless they're taking severe maps (two different flying rolls + shooting, + command for the squad leader, + any reaction rolls they need to make), i'd see them doing the shifting of formation Round to Round..
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[MrNexx]

I'd say shifting formation would be an action, probably requiring a piloting roll. So, you might shift formation and shoot within a round, but you'd have to make a piloting roll (to get everyone in the right position) and a shooting roll, and take the appropriate MAP.
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[CRMcNeill]

You also have to factor in that changing from Loose to Attack will be more difficult than vice versa. This is because the pilots are going from relatively open space into close quarters with other starfighters, which will require precise, careful maneuvering. It can be done quickly or with relative safety, but not both at once.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[MrNexx]

[CRMcNeill]

The problem there - which I've seen first-hand in the Capital Ship Combat playtesting - is that skill rolls stack up in a hurry, so it's in the best interests of both the pacing and the GM's sanity to minimize them as much as possible. While it would certainly be more accurate to require a skill roll to see how quickly it can be done, it's simpler in practice to just say that it takes a full round to go from Loose to Attack, but only a standard action to go from Attack to Loose. Or perhaps not even a standard action; if formation is declared at the beginning of the round, have Loose->Attack take a Full Round, during which the squadron can't perform any attacks.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Dr. Bidlo]

Taking a suggestion from CRMcNeill, I would like to use these rules applied to squads of troops. If so, I would use the base scale of 0D for character scale as a starting point, but that doesn't seem right. I would likely just use the number of troops in the squad plus the combined action bonus. So for a squad of 8 troops, the squad strength would be 11D (8D for 8 troops +3D for the combined action bonus of +1D for every double).

Am I on the right track? I will be mowing down large groups of boarding troops with a heavy repeater (also using CRMnNeill's house rules for Auto-fire and repeaters) this weekend and think this will make the rounds much quicker and more effective.

[CRMcNeill]

Well, I still haven't fully worked out how the rules would apply for a squad in combat, but your basic premise is flawed. The Coordination Bonus is +1 for every time the number of individuals being coordinated doubles, so your base value for a squad would be the stats for one trooper, with a +3D modifier that can be applied selectively based on the action being performed. You don't get +1D for every soldier in the squad.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Dr. Bidlo]

I added the +3D for the 8 troops. Giving the squad a base number if dice based on the number of troops is not flawed, but it is somewhat arbitrary. It is giving them a stat that is increased based on number. A squad of 8 stormtroopers shooting at one target doesn't have a blaster skill of 3D after all, they have a blaster skill of +3D above the squad's blaster skill

The reason I suggested giving the squad a base number of dice of 1D per trooper is that it represents the damage the unit can take befote losing combat effectiveness based on your system as I understand it. If the squad of 8 only has 3D of combat effectiveness, a single damage result of mortally wounded would wipe the entire entire squad. In the case of a starfighter squadron, they start with 6D based on their scale and get bonuses based on their numbers per the coordination bonus, but character scale squads start with 0D. Again, I may not be unsterstanding the rules so am seeking clarification.

What I have been doing with starfighter squadrons is a bit simpler. The coordination bonus is used per RAW (though I use your +1D per double value). For every two 'Lightly Damaged' or every one 'Heavily Damaged' result, the squadron loses one starfighter. Beyond the max range of Incapacitated (13+) I restart the damage count, with 0-3 as Shields Blown/Controls Ionized, 4-8 as Lightly Damaged, etc.

This has been working out for starfighters and I was going to apply it to soldier squads, but I am interested in your method. More often than not, you sway me to your methods eventually.

[CRMcNeill]

Which is why I came up with a completely separate Damage Chart that represents a group taking damage to its individual members by penalizing the unit's size modifier. If a unit has a 3D modifier, any Damage taken penalizes the modifier; if the modifier drops below 0D, the units is either wiped or combat ineffective (any surviving members must be reconstituted as part of a new squad).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Dr. Bidlo]

I just reread your damage chart again and my understanding is still the same - that is does not work for character scale squads based on the scale-based unit strength, which I believe is arbitrary.

If a squad of 8 troops takes a hit and suffers a damage difference of 13-15 for Severe Losses, it suffers -3D and is effectively wiped out at 0D strength. So, if a single guy shoots once with a blaster and gets a good damage roll, he could wipe out the entire squad? Furthermore, if the same thing happens with a single starfighter shooting at a squadron of 8 starfighters, it could do the same thing (-3D strength to squadron), but the squadron still has 6D strength because they are starfighter scale. Why would the scale even be a function of squadron strength if the scale factors are already accounted for in the damage Vs. Hull or Strength roll?

I am either not understanding it or... I just don't get it.

[CRMcNeill]

That's where the application of the Unit Size Modifier comes into play. Add it to the "targeted" unit's Strength roll to resist Damage (representing the increased Difficulty a single attacker would have in damaging an entire unit with one attack), and that "good roll" suddenly has a much higher threshold. That's also where formation comes into play (although again, I haven't fully worked out how to apply it), as a squad operating dispersed will be even harder to hit.

This is also where things like Auto-Fire dice and Blast Radius effects make such weapons a lot better at attacking an entire unit.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Dr. Bidlo]

I think I am starting to get it... if I can keep my understanding I am in good shape. I want to try this out in my game tomorrow.

I definitely see how this could work well with Auto-fire and blast weapons...

[CRMcNeill]

Good luck. I'm still working on how to apply this myself; at the moment, it's much better suited to starfighter squadron battles.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Dr. Bidlo]

Please bear with me. I think there were some basic assumptions that I may have missed, so I want to step through an example.

2 stormtroopers (blaster 5D, dodge 5D, Strength 2D, armor +1D to resist energy damage, blaster rifle 5D damage) - squad strength 2D Strength +0D for character scale +1D for coordination bonus = 3D squad Strength
Versus:
15 Rebel troops (blaster 4D, dodge 4D, Strength 2D, armor +1 to resist energy damage, blaster pistol 4D damage) - squad strength 2D Strength +0D for character scale +3D for coordination bonus = 5D squad Strength.

Stormtroopers squad shoots (5D for blaster shot) at rebels and hits. Damage is 6D damage (coordination bonus was added to damage) for blaster rifles against the Rebel squad strength of 5D. Damage roll for stormtroopers exceeds Strength roll of Rebels by 5 points (-1D squad Strength).

The new Rebel squad strength is now 4D and the number troops in the Rebel squad is irrelevant because it is abstractly covered by squad strength.

Is this correct?

[CRMcNeill]

There is no Squad Strength, just the Unit Size Bonus. The Unit Size Bonus is the sole measurement of how many troops are being coordinated. Two stormtroopers operating together have a Unit Size Bonus of +1D, which is treated like Battery Dice or Auto-Fire Dice (can be added to Attack or Damage, subject to Scattering), and is also added to their Damage Resistance roll, with Damage being resolved on the Unit Damage Chart.

Giving the squad +1D for every additional trooper very badly skews the math; the resulting +11D would allow a single squad of troopers to take out a Nebulon-B if they could get close enough. Using the x2=+1D method nicely represents the law of diminishing returns, in that the more people you put to a task, the greater the challenge in coordinating them to work together, the greater chance of there being a miscommunication and getting in each other's way, etc.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index