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1E Range Concept
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chaosmeister wrote:
I am not sure what you are gaining besides mode "simulation" in the game by going this route and don't quite grasp why it would be harder to loose someone in a chase the further you are way from them. At first glance this is complicated and counterintuitive to me as a fresling to this system.

The point is more that it takes multiple rounds of success to move further away from the pursuer. This maintains the graduated-size range bracket effect of the 2E system combined with the more narrative approach of 1E.

It's not that running away gets harder the further away one gets, it's that the further away one gets, the more rounds of consecutive success it will take to move up to the next range bracket.
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Chaosmeister
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the goal is to need multiple rounds of successes, couldn't you achieve the same by simply saying you need one success in the first band, two in the second, three in the third or so? Then the player could try to use multiple actions to drive "recklessly" and get all successes needed in a round without the need to increase the difficulty and leave the normal chase mechanic mostly intact.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chaosmeister wrote:
If the goal is to need multiple rounds of successes, couldn't you achieve the same by simply saying you need one success in the first band, two in the second, three in the third or so? Then the player could try to use multiple actions to drive "recklessly" and get all successes needed in a round without the need to increase the difficulty and leave the normal chase mechanic mostly intact.

Because I want to leave open the possibility that a ship like an A-Wing with its 6D Speed Code could conceivably cross a Range Band in one round that would take an X-Wing with its 4D Speed Code two rounds. The idea is to reward faster ships by allowing them to close/open the range more quickly.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about using 2E wound levels as a benchmark in opposed speed code checks?

0-3: No Change
4-8: 1 Range Band
9-12: 2 Range Bands
13-15: 3 Range Bands
16+: 4 Range bands

You could use 1st Edition Wounds if you'd rather. I don't have them on hand.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
What about using 2E wound levels as a benchmark in opposed speed code checks?

0-3: No Change
4-8: 1 Range Band
9-12: 2 Range Bands
13-15: 3 Range Bands
16+: 4 Range bands

That would definitely work, too, although I might expand the range spreads a bit. Under this chart, an A-Wing could literally go from beyond Long Range to Point Blank against a stationary target in less than one round...

Quote:
You could use 1st Edition Wounds if you'd rather. I don't have them on hand.

1E Wounds didn't have a chart, IIRC. It was all based on comparative ratios of opposing results.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
What about using 2E wound levels as a benchmark in opposed speed code checks?

0-3: No Change
4-8: 1 Range Band
9-12: 2 Range Bands
13-15: 3 Range Bands
16+: 4 Range bands

That would definitely work, too, although I might expand the range spreads a bit. Under this chart, an A-Wing could literally go from beyond Long Range to Point Blank against a stationary target in less than one round...

Quote:
You could use 1st Edition Wounds if you'd rather. I don't have them on hand.

1E Wounds didn't have a chart, IIRC. It was all based on comparative ratios of opposing results.

There was still a chart in 1e, but yes, there was multiplication/ratios involved.

As I pointed out in the same thread linked above, the 2e damage chart number ranges seem to have just been pulled out of someone's @$$ with no rhyme or reason for those particular number ranges, so I would not recommend using it for this (I do not even recommend using it for damage).
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upon further reflection, perhaps multiples of the lower rolled speed craft makes sense for gaining or passing them. So perhaps try using 1st Edition wound scale for how fast a ship is gaining or losing it's pursuer.

Quote:

DR < SR Stunned
DR ≥ SR Wounded
DR ≥ 2xSR Incapacitated
DR ≥ 3xSR Mortally Wounded


This would slow down the ability of an A-Wing from being able to close distance completely from beyond long range to close/point blank.

If it's greater than the opposing craft's roll it closes one range band.
2x the opposing craft, it closes 2.
3x the opposing craft, it closes 3.

This also makes it easy to remember, since The multiple of the target craft's speed is how many range bands it closes. So, if you managed to do 4x it would close 4 range bands. It's at least consistent within itself.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The drawback here is that it doesn't take into account how a craft may still be able to get further away without actually managing to cross into the next range band. Without some sort of modifier to represent a craft that almost makes it to the next range band (and thus lowers the bar to cross into it on future attempts), it runs into the same problem described above.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That might just have to be up to GM flavor description. It's an unfortunate side effect when you start going more simple, you may end up having a couple of things that might have to be called on the fly.

What I would likely do is maybe give the ship that ended up almost in the next range band a +5 or +1D bonus to their speed roll on the following round.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, what would be most consistent with the RAW is to add an increasing modifier for each Range Band to keep moving the bar higher, but then provide ships a +1D modifier to their Speed Code every time they "win", but not by enough to cross into the next Range Band. Something like:
    Point Blank: +0
    Short: +10
    Medium: +20
    Long: +30
So, suppose an A-Wing (6D) is running from a TIE/ln (5D). The chase starts at Short Range, so the pilots roll their respective Speed Codes (Results: 24 for the A-Wing, 15 for the TIE). The A-Wing won, but not by enough to cross into the next Range Band, so the chase continues at Short Range the following round. However, because the A-Wing is pulling away, it receives a +1D bonus to Speed Code on this round (Results: 20 for the A-Wing, 17 for the TIE; low rolls on my dice app for the A-Wing). So, the A-Wing is still at Short Range, but because it won the last two Speed contests, it now receives a +2D bonus to its Speed Code (Results: 28 for the A-Wing, 16 for the TIE). The A-Wing has finally beaten the TIE by more than 10 points, and now finally moves into Medium Range, where the chase continues yet again...

It may take some experimentation to hammer out proper modifiers, but I think this better captures what I suggested above. An alternate version of the chart would be to go by +5 Modifiers, like so:
    Point Blank: +5
    Short: +10
    Medium: +15
    Long: +20
And of course, the winner of the Speed Contest may decide whether he wants to close / open the range or stay at the current range.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then, to bring in the concept I posited here, various weapons would have Fire Control modifiers at different Range Bands. For example if one were to use the Laser Cannon as a baseline, its Range Stat would look like so: +0D/+0D/+0D/+0D, while an Ion Cannon with shorter range would have: +0D/+0D/-1D/-2D, and a Blaster Cannon with similarly short range, but better optimized for close-in combat would have +1D/+2/-1D/-2D (dice values are estimated for purposes of example, only).
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding penalty to speed dice for dodge / full dodge would also slow down the process of moving to next range band.

Poe/Finn dodge
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Adding penalty to speed dice for dodge / full dodge would also slow down the process of moving to next range band.

Also fair, but I want to hammer this out, then take the time to grok the 1ERC Movement Rules.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Darklighter79 wrote:
Adding penalty to speed dice for dodge / full dodge would also slow down the process of moving to next range band.

Also fair, but I want to hammer this out, then take the time to grok the 1ERC Movement Rules.

It's great to see all you guys discussing 1e rules and mods. Glad to see you know 1e or are learning 1e.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
It's great to see all you guys discussing 1e rules and mods. Glad to see you know 1e or are learning 1e.

Aww, shucks. Thanks, dad.

Wink
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