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Hyperspace
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusharn wrote:
If you wish to ignore it that is fine I do not need any validation on my opinions, if you wish to counter point what I am saying then post a counter point and we can discuss the technical and theatricial merits and flaws.

No, you were not just stating a list of negative "points of discussion", putting out there in case anyone had any list of "counterpoints" and was interested in a 'debate'. You were clearly asking several questions in the midst of all your opinionated bashing. And I have absolutely no interest in a "debate" about 'technical and theatrical merits and flaws' because I don't care if you hate the movie (and how hyperspace is handled in the movie).

Rusharn wrote:
If you simply say you do not like something without any specifics your a troll.

Nope. Not here. Plenty have just chimed in with brief statements of their opinions, good and bad. There is absolutely no requirement at this website for brief negative opinions to be 'substantiated' in any way. It seems you are used to forums where arguments are the norm and opinions are evidence.

Rusharn wrote:
Giving your interpretations of the information presented makes you a troll. I am getting a little confused where you are going with this line of dialog. I am either free to give my opinion or not. If you wish to ignore it that is fine

I think you read every word of my posts so I'm not going to regurgitate it all here for you again. I will try to be more to the point.

You can state negative opinions here. You can do so with, or without, exposition. The point you are being called out on here is the excessive negativity (bashing) of films. And another thing (paragraph of bash). And another thing (paragraph of bash). And another thing (paragraph of bash). And so on.

You suggest you should be free to bash all you want because we can just ignore it. If we ignore it, then there was no reason for all the negativity in the first place (most people who visit this site are lurkers). If non-lurking forum members reply to it in agreement, then a bash-fest has begun, which only amplifies the original problem. If non-lurking users fully engage in all of your bashing to oppose it ('merits vs. flaws' as you euphemistically call it), then an argument of opinions has begun, and that can't end good. Any way you slice it, there is no good that can come out of being overly negative about the films.

I think you can be a very valuable member of this community. I'm personally glad you are here and that we have your perspective. Let's just please dial the bashing down a notch or three. Thank you.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rush: what is it you're looking for?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
Rush: what is it you're looking for?

The same thing we all are; a way to put things back how they were before Disney Wars.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
jmanski wrote:
Rush: what is it you're looking for?

The same thing we all are; a way to put things back how they were before Disney Wars.


Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle, and Pandora's box is open too.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we come here and rant about it until we calm down. I still think the Starkiller Base's beam weapon being seen firing in real time from thousands of lightyears across the galaxy is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on screen. The best way I've found to cope with it is by ridiculing it (the Infinite Improbability Cannon).
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Rusharn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having played three sessions since starting this thread this group of players are playing around with hyperspace in a way that no other group ever dared too, most of this based on the actions they say in the FTA. The thing is the movie did not show Han taking any actions to 'override' safeties or anyone really going into the real dangers of what he was about to do.

What I am looking for is rules that say yes or no, on actions that were taken in the film TFA as my players want to duplicate those actions, as well as determining a rules set for hyperspace to set down as my players are becoming increasingly bold when dealing with hyperspace travel. Now they are wanting to plan HALO jumps around their ship hyperspacing into atmosphere to bypass system patrols, real space mines and other defense systems given that a character and mascot NPC where captured two sessions ago and where taken to a heavily secured system.

In the thread under house rules for orbital combat CRMcNeill mentioned RAW that a ship cannot enter hyperspace within 50 space units of a planet. I was finally able to fine that line in the book so RAW no jumping in atmosphere. While hyperspace mis jump rules have detection or collisions with mass objects, I haven't found rules to how close you can jump to a planet, or at least close you can intentionally jump in on a planet.

They already want to find and install an N-CRAB and a holonet interface as they are increasingly want to go places that they 'shouldn't' go, as having a ship near by hiding in hyperspace is something that would be very helpful in their increasingly bold / reckless plans. I am thinking of instating the power cell rules from the Galaxy Guide 6 1st edition to limit the time frame their ship can operate in that state to force smaller idling in hyperspace window than their consumables would dictate, but still allowing it to be something they can calculate.

The thing is this group having come from watching TFA first has set the bar of their expectations on that film, from how fast someone can learn force powers to what they can do with hyperspace. While most other aspects of the film are just pushing it to the next level, the hyperspace stunts preformed by Han Solo however ventured into actions, as far as I am aware of, had never been intentionally preformed before in any Star Wars material up to this point, and when they did occur ended in disaster. My other group in the past comprised of players more experienced with Star Wars Universe probably would not try to duplicate those scenes. But my players want to apply those scenes to what they are doing in the current game, which include jumping to lightspeed out of a star ship's hanger bay and bypassing the defense grid of a planet which Han Solo displayed as possible. While it is hard for one PC to reach the total skill levels of Han Solo, it is easier for six players to combine their skills to match him in specific areas.

Of the issues that TFA has brought up in my game, the hyperspace thing is the one that needs to be ironed out the most, so I want to have as close to RAW rundown of the rules of hyperspace, preferably with book and page references, so I can be consistent with my players and so they know what they can and cannot do. If the are no RAW then specific examples for or against actions, such as dropping out of hyperspace in atmosphere, and from what material, whether rule book fluff or EU would be nice. If there are no Fluff or EU examples I would like as scientific of an explanation for or against as to the possible outcomes, while hopefully keeping existing WEG equipment relevant, unless a rule specifically states there is a way to bypass said equipment.

A solid set of rules is needed, because if the players can do it, then the massive well funded military of the various galactic powers will be able to to do it too. If specific maneuvers proved to be highly effective for infiltration or assault then counter measures should have been developed to protect the most critical of facilities, planets, and systems.

As a side question has anyone wiped out a group with the ship destroyed mishap on the hyperspace chart?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ship destroyed result??

There's a ship Heavily damaged result!
Quote:
Abrogation Mishap Table
When an astrogation roll misses the difficulty number
by 1-9 points, a mishap occurs. Roll 2D to find out
what happens:
2. Hyperdrive Cut-out and Damaged. The ship's
hyperdrive cuts-out, avoiding a collision with a stellar
body. Unfortunately, the cut-out damaged the
hyperdrive engines. A Moderate repair total (capital
ship repair, space transports repair or starfighter repair)
is necessary to repair the main hyperdrive; otherwise
the ship will have to use its backup hyperdrive to limp
to a nearby system. This can be a good excuse to
introduce the characters to a new system, ship, alien
species, or other adventure.
3-4. Radiation Fluctuations. Radiation surges affect
the hyperdrive's performance, randomly increasing
or decreasing the journey's duration. Suggested
change of +1D or -ID in hours for each point the roll
was missed by if the astrogator missed by 3, the
journey might be increased by 3D hours.
5-6. Hyperdrive Cut-out. The ship's navigation computers
detected a mass shadow (a rogue planet, for
example), throwing the ship into realspace. The pilot
must now calculate a new hyperspace route from
wherever they are in realspace. This is also a good
excuse to introduce an adventure.
7-8. Off Course. The ship is completely off-course.
The ship emerges in the wrong system and an entirely
new trip must be plotted. The system they have arrived
in may be settled or unsettled. Yet another good
excuse to introduce an adventure.
9. Mynocks. Mynocks somehow attached themselves
to the ship's power cables prior to jumping into
hyperspace. The duration of the journey is increased
by ID days.
10. Close Call. Some other ship's system, such as
the sublight drives, nav computer, escape pods or
weapons are damaged due to any number of factors.
The ship completes its journey, but the system will
have to be fixed upon arrival at their destination.
11-12. Collision, Heavy Damage. The ship actually
collides with an object. The ship drops to realspace,
heavily damaged (see "Starship Damage" later in this
chapter) and with a ruptured hull. The ship is no
longer space-worthy and must be abandoned.
All characters in a ruptured area of the ship must
make a Moderate survival total to get into survival
suits in one round. If the character doesn't, he must
make a new stamina check each round to avoid passing
out from lack of air in the first round, the
difficulty is Easy, then Moderate, then Difficult, then
Very Difficult, then Heroic.


However there IS instances where i have skipped that chart when the result is OBVIOUS, such as one group who's pilot (even after several warnings from me, but he had 2 other pcs egging him on) pulled the hyperspace lever while pointed AT A SUN.. Result TPk.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting that, before the first on-screen hyperspace jump ever occurred, Han Solo specifically stated that "without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova," yet there is no possibility of this under the RAW's hyperspace jump rules...

Granted, there is a lot more "space" in the galaxy than there is stuff to run into, but shouldn't there at least be the possibility of a fatal incident if the astro-navigator rolls badly enough?
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
It's interesting that, before the first on-screen hyperspace jump ever occurred, Han Solo specifically stated that "without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova," yet there is no possibility of this under the RAW's hyperspace jump rules...

Granted, there is a lot more "space" in the galaxy than there is stuff to run into, but shouldn't there at least be the possibility of a fatal incident if the astro-navigator rolls badly enough?


Perhaps WEG was trying to protect players from themselves... and avoid any similarity to Paranoia.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OR that's what those damaging of the ships results indicate, you DID come close to one, but the safeties kicked in and dropped you out JUST In time before you went boom..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
It's interesting that, before the first on-screen hyperspace jump ever occurred, Han Solo specifically stated that "without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova," yet there is no possibility of this under the RAW's hyperspace jump rules...

Granted, there is a lot more "space" in the galaxy than there is stuff to run into, but shouldn't there at least be the possibility of a fatal incident if the astro-navigator rolls badly enough?

Because there is an astronomical (pun intended) proportion of empty space to anything else in the galaxy, you can't really represent the 'one in a million' type of odds of accidentally astrogating your starship into a star with the D6 system. I think it's safe to say that Han was being dramatic to Luke. In the game the navicomputer doesn't even let the ship enter hyperspace if the difficulty roll is missed by more than 10, which sounds like one of those failsafe aspects. So perhaps the failsafe could possibly be intentionally overridden so that the ship entered hyperspace regardless of the roll, then there might be a better chance of hitting a star. But if you really just needed to get away from danger and escape into hyperspace then you wouldn't let the ship run the course of the entire uncalculated jump. You would get away and drop out of hyperspace quickly into interstellar space, get your bearings and try another jump.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I think it's safe to say that Han was being dramatic to Luke.

Perhaps hyperbolic might be a better word, since an uncalculated jump without coming to the correct heading could definitely be very unpleasant.

Whill wrote:
But if you really just needed to get away from danger and escape into hyperspace then you wouldn't let the ship run the course of the entire uncalculated jump. You would get away and drop out of hyperspace quickly into interstellar space, get your bearings and try another jump.


Multi-jumping is a tried and true military sci-fi method. Definitely agree that short hops to recalculate are ideal in that scenario. Very Happy
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
It's interesting that, before the first on-screen hyperspace jump ever occurred, Han Solo specifically stated that "without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova," yet there is no possibility of this under the RAW's hyperspace jump rules...

Granted, there is a lot more "space" in the galaxy than there is stuff to run into, but shouldn't there at least be the possibility of a fatal incident if the astro-navigator rolls badly enough?

Because there is an astronomical (pun intended) proportion of empty space to anything else in the galaxy, you can't really represent the 'one in a million' type of odds of accidentally astrogating your starship into a star with the D6 system.


"You failed. Your wild die came up a 1. Your total wasn't even within 30 of the DC and, considering it was at 20, I don't know HOW that happened... yes, I think it's save to say that you not only plowed right into a star, your crash turned it into a supernova."
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"You not only killed yourself, you also killed the group as well as all of the sentients in this solar system, and in a few years' time, the sentients of a few neighboring systems."
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Urban Spaceman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
"You not only killed yourself, you also killed the group as well as all of the sentients in this solar system, and in a few years' time, the sentients of a few neighboring systems."


Sounds like a game over screen from the old Space Quest games!!
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