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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | On second thought, after seeing how far one can climb, I think I'm only going to allow characters to climb at Cruising speed if the object they're climbing allows it. So not only will the surface determine the difficulty, but it could affect how fast one can scale it.
So for instance a ladder is easy enough, or a surface with many convenient places to grip. I'd allow Cautious or Cruising speed, but it might increase the difficulty if you try to do it faster.
But a tough to climb surface, with no hand holes or places to grip, would not only be Difficult, but also not allow anything over Cautious movement. |
I'd base it on what you're climbing. IF it is an easy or lower climb, you can go full speed. Moderate or higher, only cautious..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16305
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Check the OpenD6 books; they have more detailed rules about climbing and jumping, if that’s what you’re looking for.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10408
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa! Epic necro!
| DougRed4 wrote: | | I'm surprised that the question hasn't come up about how far one can climb, assuming they make their climb skill roll... |
RAW actually addresses this on R&E p. 101...
| Quote: | | For unusual movements – such as swimming or climbing – the Move is normally one-third of the character's Move; adjust this rate at your discretion. |
Based on this, characters would still have all the same speeds available, but the Move for these types of movements is a faction of the base (horizontal ground) Move.
FYI in case you are interested in the way RAW handles it.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10408
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Climbing/Jumping |
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I had never read this 2004 thread before, so now that it is bumped I'll go back to the OP topic and another than came up...
| Loc Taal wrote: | It seems weird to me to group these two into one skill. I don't think a skilled climber would necessarily be able to jump very high. I also don't think a high-jumper would necessarily know how to climb a cliff. It seems that these are two very distinct skills. I think it would make sense to split these into separate skills, especially considering there are only five strength skills.  |
I fully concur with my esteemed predecessor. At some point after starting to play 2e with all of its more narrow skills, I split climbing and jumping because they are different enough to be separate skills, and also because the number of skills for each attribute except Strength increased in 2e (and Strength was already the one with the least skills to begin with).
| Son of Fire wrote: | I agree, the Strength skills are very limited, and nether of the two you mentioned seem to be related enough to warrant them being placed in the same skill block.
I also think that they should have changed the Lift skill to something a bit more all encompassing |
Since 1987, I've thought of lifting as encompassing more than just "lifting" so the only real issue was with the skill's name. Now I call it lifting/exertion and consider it to encompass lifting, pushing, pulling, and exerting physical force in ways not covered by other Strength skills. It is also a factor in Strength Damage.
| obidancer wrote: | Isn't SW about being heroes doing heroic feats? Jumping shafts with a princess in your arms, chasing some one on top of roofs, climbing up the legs of an AT-AT, jumping up and out of the tank of a carbonite sealer before it starts...
If the players want to be heroes make the they have the skill to be so...
Climbing/jumping is one hell of an important skill. |
| Ray wrote: | | ...While not as important as Dodge, Climbing/Jumping is a bloody important skill!!! |
These were in response to sentiments that climbing/jumping was not an important skill in the game. Any skill will only be as important as the GM makes it. Maybe it isn't important to some GMs, but I agree with these replies. Jumping is action, and climbing can be too. Swinging on ropes or vines may use either skill, depending on if I feel the ability to hold on without slipping is more important (climbing) or getting a good jump to start the motion (jumping), and as a give back to players I often just tell them they can use either/or. I doubt I have ever ran an adventure where a character didn't jump or climb at least once.
| Maximilian Bernas wrote: | Do you all remember when Hide/Sneak were one skill? Then they separated them in the 2nd edition.
I felt that those were closer than climbing/jumping. I separated them because the books did so, but always felt that was simply another way for the chars to have to spend CPs.
Just a thought... |
I agree that hiding and sneaking are more similar than climbing and jumping, but I don't feel beholden to maintain RAW. Since the 90s, I have remarried some skills that 2e divorced, such as blaster artillery+vehicle blasters= heavy weapons, and hide+sneak= stealth/hiding.
Whill's Skills, revised
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2279
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | Whoa! Epic necro!
| DougRed4 wrote: | | I'm surprised that the question hasn't come up about how far one can climb, assuming they make their climb skill roll... |
RAW actually addresses this on R&E p. 101...
| Quote: | | For unusual movements – such as swimming or climbing – the Move is normally one-third of the character's Move; adjust this rate at your discretion. |
Based on this, characters would still have all the same speeds available, but the Move for these types of movements is a faction of the base (horizontal ground) Move.
FYI in case you are interested in the way RAW handles it. |
I am definitely interested. None of my players chose to climb (one had a jetpack I'd forgotten about), but it's still good to know. I felt my 1/2 speed was still a bit fast, so I prefer the 1/3rd.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2279
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Climbing/Jumping |
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| Whill wrote: | I had never read this 2004 thread before, so now that it is bumped I'll go back to the OP topic and another than came up...
| Loc Taal wrote: | | It seems weird to me to group these two into one skill. I don't think a skilled climber would necessarily be able to jump very high. I also don't think a high-jumper would necessarily know how to climb a cliff. It seems that these are two very distinct skills. I think it would make sense to split these into separate skills, especially considering there are only five strength skills. |
I fully concur with my esteemed predecessor. At some point after starting to play 2e with all of its more narrow skills, I split climbing and jumping because they are different enough to be separate skills, and also because the number of skills for each attribute except Strength increased in 2e (and Strength was already the one with the least skills to begin with).
| Son of Fire wrote: | I agree, the Strength skills are very limited, and nether of the two you mentioned seem to be related enough to warrant them being placed in the same skill block.
I also think that they should have changed the Lift skill to something a bit more all encompassing |
Since 1987, I've thought of lifting as encompassing more than just "lifting" so the only real issue was with the skill's name. Now I call it lifting/exertion and consider it to encompass lifting, pushing, pulling, and exerting physical force in ways not covered by other Strength skills. It is also a factor in Strength Damage.
| obidancer wrote: | Isn't SW about being heroes doing heroic feats? Jumping shafts with a princess in your arms, chasing some one on top of roofs, climbing up the legs of an AT-AT, jumping up and out of the tank of a carbonite sealer before it starts...
If the players want to be heroes make the they have the skill to be so...
Climbing/jumping is one hell of an important skill. |
| Ray wrote: | | ...While not as important as Dodge, Climbing/Jumping is a bloody important skill!!! |
These were in response to sentiments that climbing/jumping was not an important skill in the game. Any skill will only be as important as the GM makes it. Maybe it isn't important to some GMs, but I agree with these replies. Jumping is action, and climbing can be too. Swinging on ropes or vines may use either skill, depending on if I feel the ability to hold on without slipping is more important (climbing) or getting a good jump to start the motion (jumping), and as a give back to players I often just tell them they can use either/or. I doubt I have ever ran an adventure where a character didn't jump or climb at least once.
| Maximilian Bernas wrote: | Do you all remember when Hide/Sneak were one skill? Then they separated them in the 2nd edition.
I felt that those were closer than climbing/jumping. I separated them because the books did so, but always felt that was simply another way for the chars to have to spend CPs.
Just a thought... |
I agree that hiding and sneaking are more similar than climbing and jumping, but I don't feel beholden to maintain RAW. Since the 90s, I have remarried some skills that 2e divorced, such as blaster artillery+vehicle blasters= heavy weapons, and hide+sneak= stealth/hiding.
Whill's Skills, revised |
I'm tempted to revise the skills myself, and think you've done an excellent job of condensing/reworking them.
Your list is quite comprehensive. I saw a new one (that I don't recall seeing before) in the NPC Book (which I think I downloaded from here). An Engineer had the Knowledge skill of Technology.
I have to say that both Climbing and Jumping are quite rare in my games, for whatever reason. I had opportune moments for climbing in my adventure last night, but I can't recall the players ever doing so.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14201
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: |
I am definitely interested. None of my players chose to climb (one had a jetpack I'd forgotten about), but it's still good to know. I felt my 1/2 speed was still a bit fast, so I prefer the 1/3rd. |
I've had quite a few instances of pc's using Climb. Even if only going up a tree, or scaling a cliff, to get down to a base that's hidden in a sink hole...
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10408
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Right on.
| DougRed4 wrote: |
I'm tempted to revise the skills myself, and think you've done an excellent job of condensing/reworking them.
Your list is quite comprehensive. I saw a new one (that I don't recall seeing before) in the NPC Book (which I think I downloaded from here). An Engineer had the Knowledge skill of Technology. |
Technology is a 1e Knowledge skill, and as designed it was just the 2e value skill but limited to technology. A supplement or two may have come up with other uses for it which IIRC veered more into the Technical attribute realm than they should have for a Knowledge skill, but when they made Blue Vader 2e, they just expanded the 1e core technology skill to handle both technology and non-technological goods and services, thus generalizing the name to value.
If it was a 2e supplement, then a character having the technology skill is probably a conversion error. The character should have appropriate specializations for value instead.
In my skill system, I combined business and value as they do in D6 Space. I also throw in general economics knowledge.
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