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atgxtg
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 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think it also shows why game mechanics questions should be answered by the people who actually wrote the game and not by somebody who happens to work at the company.
I really don't believe the people who wrote the game ran it that way. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | I think it also shows why game mechanics questions should be answered by the people who actually wrote the game and not by somebody who happens to work at the company.
I really don't believe the people who wrote the game ran it that way. |
To which part are you referring?
Speaking for myself, these two factors have shaped quite a few of my house rules over the last few years.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | I think it also shows why game mechanics questions should be answered by the people who actually wrote the game and not by somebody who happens to work at the company.
I really don't believe the people who wrote the game ran it that way. |
To which part are you referring?
Speaking for myself, these two factors have shaped quite a few of my house rules over the last few years. |
I don't believe that anyone who wrote 2R&E actually ran the double scaling modifier in their house campaigns. Like I wrote earlier, it makes capital ships virtually immune to starfighters, and the shields vs. missiles directly contradicts stuff that is in the RAW.
The whole answer reminds me of the situation when Mongoose came out with their version of RuneQuest. The guy who ran the game at the convention ran the rules differently than how they were written in the book, which in turn was contradicted on the Mongoose forums by Matt Sprang, which in turn contradicted what the authors and playtesters had in mind. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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True, by the novels you should be able to strip one side of an ISD's shielding with a combined 24 torps from a full squadron of fighters. at 9d base +8d for 24 combined torps that comes out to 17d. With an ISD having only HULL scaled up, they still get 7+6+3 for 16d of resistance/soak.. so on average will sustain a 'shields blown' result..
As to Trautmann, who was he in relation to the books? Was he an editor at WEG? Just some flunky in their 'letters to the editor' area?
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Not in 2R&E, and remember we are using 2R&E rules here. In 2R&E nobone would have a high enough command skill to coodinate 24 photorps.
And don't try to sell me that load of bantha fodder about a half dozen guys trying to coordinate a half dozen guys each and setting up one guy to take the shot. It's silly, impractical and wouldn't work. And even if it did work the opponent's would just concentrate their fire on the poor fool who is the "designated shooter". before he got his chance to shoot.
About the best you're going to see in 2R&E is a 2D bonus for six guys. And that assumes a 7D squad leader who just flies his ship and doesn't shoot.
BTW, IMO they should have capped the command bonus not to 1 character per D of command skill, but to 1D (3 characters) per D of Command skill. A professional commander (4D skill) should be able to coordinate a dozen guys. |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | I don't believe that anyone who wrote 2R&E actually ran the double scaling modifier in their house campaigns. Like I wrote earlier, it makes capital ships virtually immune to starfighters, and the shields vs. missiles directly contradicts stuff that is in the RAW. |
Well, speaking for myself, I've always felt it silly that WEG decided combat shields wouldn't stop missiles or ion cannon, all based off of negligible evidence in the films. As I said earlier, a lot of my house rules took the double scale modifier into consideration, such as allowing starfighters to carry heavy rockets that inflicted Capital Scale damage, or modifying the scale system so that most of the smaller starships only had a +4D scale modifier over starfighters.
It also factors into my proposed warhead fusing rules, allowing starfighters to use ordnance to just attack the shields in an attempt to bring them down, rather than the full combined strength of the hull, shields and two scale modifiers.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | True, by the novels you should be able to strip one side of an ISD's shielding with a combined 24 torps from a full squadron of fighters. at 9d base +8d for 24 combined torps that comes out to 17d. With an ISD having only HULL scaled up, they still get 7+6+3 for 16d of resistance/soak.. so on average will sustain a 'shields blown' result.. |
Of course, per the RAW, that's only if the ISD puts all 3D of its shields in the same fire arc. A starfighter attack from multiple angles simultaneously would force the ISD to water down the shields somewhat. Plus, if attacking from multiple angles, it increases the possibility that the shield operator will fail the roll and leave an arc undefended.
| Quote: | | As to Trautmann, who was he in relation to the books? Was he an editor at WEG? Just some flunky in their 'letters to the editor' area? |
The Wookieepedia Article on Eric S. Trautmann.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Not in 2R&E, and remember we are using 2R&E rules here. In 2R&E nobone would have a high enough command skill to coodinate 24 photorps. |
Technically, the commander would only have to coordinate 12 starfighters, firing 2 torpedoes apiece. Not that 12 is all that easy to command under 2R&E rules, but I've never felt that the 2R&E rules on that matter were all that realistic.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Of course, per the RAW, that's only if the ISD puts all 3D of its shields in the same fire arc. A starfighter attack from multiple angles simultaneously would force the ISD to water down the shields somewhat. Plus, if attacking from multiple angles, it increases the possibility that the shield operator will fail the roll and leave an arc undefended. |
Not really. At least not if the 6D scaling applies. The ship could just put 1 pip on each facing and get 6D+1 sheilds. More than enough.
And a capital ship probably has multiple shield operators so the difficulties is going to stay fairly low. |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneil, with your house rules that change the scale rules (which I really like), do you then double the scale modifiers?
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | Not in 2R&E, and remember we are using 2R&E rules here. In 2R&E nobone would have a high enough command skill to coodinate 24 photorps. |
Technically, the commander would only have to coordinate 12 starfighters, firing 2 torpedoes apiece. Not that 12 is all that easy to command under 2R&E rules, but I've never felt that the 2R&E rules on that matter were all that realistic. |
Yeah, but linked torps only adds 1D damage, it doesn't double it. And while I agree about 2R&E's rules on coodinating attacks, the fact reamins that they were the rules in effect when the article answered the shield question.
So by R&E terms captial ships are fairly immune to starfighters. Frankly, I don't agree. Based on the films, and on the WWII analog for Star Wars, I'd expect starfighters to be about as effect as prop planes were against capital ships in WWII. And that matches up more closes with adding the scale modifier in once.
Besides, if we add in in for shields AND hull, should we add it in again for ships with Fire Control, since that adds to the attack dice? |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | crmcneil, with your house rules that change the scale rules (which I really like), do you then double the scale modifiers? |
That's part of why I'm asking. The scale system has worked pretty well the few times I have run it, but I have yet to have any battles with capital ships. I'd like to have it a little more sorted out before I do. As I've mentioned, several of my house rules have leaned more toward using the double scale modifier rule than not. I haven't made a final decision, though.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Besides, if we add in in for shields AND hull, should we add it in again for ships with Fire Control, since that adds to the attack dice? |
It would seem to follow. I know I worked on realistic sensor rules a while back that made active combat shields increase the ship's sensor signature, so by that note, a ship with active shields would certainly be much more obvious to the sensors of an attacking starfighter.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | Not in 2R&E, and remember we are using 2R&E rules here. In 2R&E nobone would have a high enough command skill to coodinate 24 photorps.
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It's easy.
1) 24 torps is 12 fighters firing fire linked.
Each squadron is broken down into 3 flights and each flight has 4 fighters (3 others plus a flight leader, except for the sq ldr who has his 3 flight guys and 2 flight leaders. So flight leaders need only a 3d command and 5d for the Squadron leader..
| atgxtg wrote: |
BTW, IMO they should have capped the command bonus not to 1 character per D of command skill, but to 1D (3 characters) per D of Command skill. A professional commander (4D skill) should be able to coordinate a dozen guys. |
You are looking at it as i am telling everyone what to do and forgetting that most militaries are segmented for delegation. The OIC tells the dept heads, they tell the div officers, who tell the section leaders who tell the group leaders who tell.. and so on down the chain.
| Quote: | | Technically, the commander would only have to coordinate 12 starfighters, firing 2 torpedoes apiece. Not that 12 is all that easy to command under 2R&E rules, but I've never felt that the 2R&E rules on that matter were all that realistic. |
It also specifies that groups used to one another/regimented can ignore/go above that limit iirc..
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
You are looking at it as i am telling everyone what to do and forgetting that most militaries are segmented for delegation. The OIC tells the dept heads, they tell the div officers, who tell the section leaders who tell the group leaders who tell.. and so on down the chain. |
Which is fine for coodinating an overall plan of attack, but doesn't work for coordinating one specfic volley. You can't have 20 seperate commanders trying to coodinate 100 guys into shooting 1 target in a coodinated attack and having it work.
That's why in the real world they send out a two man team of snipers rather than try to coodinate an entire platoon. It doesn't work.
[quote] It also specifies that groups used to one another/regimented can ignore/go above that limit iirc..[/quote
Yes, but not by how much. |
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