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MrNexx
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 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: Ships Computers |
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So, I've seen references that the Falcon has several droid brains in it to function as the ship's computer (the Legends section of Wookiepedia says this).
How do you handle droidified ships?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Ships Computers |
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| MrNexx wrote: | So, I've seen references that the Falcon has several droid brains in it to function as the ship's computer (the Legends section of Wookiepedia says this).
How do you handle droidified ships? |
Generally just as an internal component that doesn't really affect the stats. The exceptions would be something like Kierra from the Thaddeus Ross stories in the Adventure Journal. She's a fully realized droid consciousness inhabiting the computer of a YT-1300.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I guess that depends on what you consider a "droid brain" to be...
I always thought they were just computers.
Also, you could chalk it up to astromech brains and call it fluff (built-in astromech, more or less). |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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It depends. One of my buddies in sparks, had me run a PI for him to Acquire a specific ship type with a droid brain. She (lucinda) ran the computers (navigational) shields, piloting (though COULD be sweet talked into letting a human operate it), and even internal life support. She was statted out similar to the vulture droids (atoc and beyond), but had several quirks..
One of the biggest, is she loved her ship being spotless, and as such would actively FLEE combat, even to the point of overriding what those on the ship wanted to do..
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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:44 am Post subject: |
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There are some pieces of equipment detailed which use droid brains to give a ship particular functions. The Bespin Motors Remote DVI Activator and Go Corp CD-12a Autopilot Droid Brain can both be found in Galladinium's Fantastic Technology: Guns and Gear for any Occasion (WEG40025) on page 18. The GST System Diagnostic Filter also uses droid brain technology to help diagnose ship problems (same book, page 18-19.)
However, I would recommend against attempting to interface a droid brain with a ship to the extent that the brain considers the ship to be its "body." Even if you're not dealing with an Evil GM, too many things could easily go wrong with that, and it's asking for trouble in my opinion.
| Naaman wrote: | I guess that depends on what you consider a "droid brain" to be...
I always thought they were just computers.
Also, you could chalk it up to astromech brains and call it fluff (built-in astromech, more or less). |
What seems to be the case is that droid brains are highly specialized applications of computer technology, such that even a character with (A) Computer Engineering wouldn't be have the expert training needed to deal with them effectively. ( (A) Droid Engineering is a separate skill.) They incorporate artificial intelligence in a very particular, but potentially highly flexible, fashion.
AI isn't limited to droids though. HDT datafiles make use of AI, but in a much more specific and much less flexible way. (Storing an HDT is the only time one has to worry about computer storage, other files take up negligible space by comparison.) They are essentially Scholar specializations granted to a computer, such that the datafile can actually draw conclusions and make assumptions based on the information it has available. They are highly specific though, such as a droid model, a starship model, one particular star system, etc.
They do share the same specialized programming language as droids, and HDTs up to a certain size can be installed in droids (up to 5D) to give them that specialization.. but no droid brain can have more than one installed at a time, due to inherent conflicts.
R2-D2 was carrying around a 10D Scholar: Death Star HDT datafile for most of Episode IV, though he could presumably only make use of 5D of that. That's why he could so easily slice into certain Death Star systems, there was very little he didn't know at the time about that battle station.
For further reading on this, See Cracken's Rebel Field Guide (WEG40046) and Cynabar's Fantastic Technology: Droids (WEG40116.) |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: |
However, I would recommend against attempting to interface a droid brain with a ship to the extent that the brain considers the ship to be its "body." Even if you're not dealing with an Evil GM, too many things could easily go wrong with that, and it's asking for trouble in my opinion.
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But those sorts of quirks can help make a ship seem more 'real'..
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ForbinProject
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Would there be a scale limitation to the size of ship that could be used as the body of a droid brain? |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: | There are some pieces of equipment detailed which use droid brains to give a ship particular functions. The Bespin Motors Remote DVI Activator and Go Corp CD-12a Autopilot Droid Brain can both be found in Galladinium's Fantastic Technology: Guns and Gear for any Occasion (WEG40025) on page 18. The GST System Diagnostic Filter also uses droid brain technology to help diagnose ship problems (same book, page 18-19.)
However, I would recommend against attempting to interface a droid brain with a ship to the extent that the brain considers the ship to be its "body." Even if you're not dealing with an Evil GM, too many things could easily go wrong with that, and it's asking for trouble in my opinion.
What seems to be the case is that droid brains are highly specialized applications of computer technology, such that even a character with (A) Computer Engineering wouldn't be have the expert training needed to deal with them effectively. ( (A) Droid Engineering is a separate skill.) They incorporate artificial intelligence in a very particular, but potentially highly flexible, fashion.
AI isn't limited to droids though. HDT datafiles make use of AI, but in a much more specific and much less flexible way. (Storing an HDT is the only time one has to worry about computer storage, other files take up negligible space by comparison.) They are essentially Scholar specializations granted to a computer, such that the datafile can actually draw conclusions and make assumptions based on the information it has available. They are highly specific though, such as a droid model, a starship model, one particular star system, etc.
They do share the same specialized programming language as droids, and HDTs up to a certain size can be installed in droids (up to 5D) to give them that specialization.. but no droid brain can have more than one installed at a time, due to inherent conflicts.
R2-D2 was carrying around a 10D Scholar: Death Star HDT datafile for most of Episode IV, though he could presumably only make use of 5D of that. That's why he could so easily slice into certain Death Star systems, there was very little he didn't know at the time about that battle station.
For further reading on this, See Cracken's Rebel Field Guide (WEG40046) and Cynabar's Fantastic Technology: Droids (WEG40116.) |
Hmmm... that's interesting. I always figured that the separation between droid tech skills and computer tech skills was due to the fact that droids have a body with moving parts and such, while computers just have information: the droid programming/repair (or engineering) would require the technician to be able to make the droid "brain" (a computer, by my understanding) interface with the body.
At best (and this is just one way to do it, if one wants to get so technical) I see the "droid brain" being some kind of module that handles the "droid" stuff, while the main thing is still a regular computer.
Anyway, with the gap between real life and sci-fi becoming ever narrower, I suppose we could choose to elevate droids to something beyond possibility and always assume that the real life tech doesn't exist to replicate what Star Wars calls a "droid," even if there are currently robots IRL. |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | Would there be a scale limitation to the size of ship that could be used as the body of a droid brain? |
I would say not, but that you would start running into inefficiencies if your droid is responsible for too many systems.
To use a YT-1300 as an example, you could probably have a single droid brain doing all of that... but then it's going to get MAPs to run the shields, sensors, piloting, and weapons all at once... much like a mortal pilot would.
Now, if you've got 3 brains, you might have one that does piloting, one that handles sensors, shields, and astrogation, and one that handles weapons, then you avoid a lot of MAPS, and the specialized systems can be more effective (if they've got the standard 25D, they don't need to worry about their piloting skill if they're a weapons droid).
Large enough droidships might have an additional brain with Command functions, or those might belong to a human pilot... there may well be ship captains out there only minimally proficient in piloting, but whose Perception attribute/skills let them Command their various ship systems droids.
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ForbinProject
Commander
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | ForbinProject wrote: | | Would there be a scale limitation to the size of ship that could be used as the body of a droid brain? |
I would say not, but that you would start running into inefficiencies if your droid is responsible for too many systems.
To use a YT-1300 as an example, you could probably have a single droid brain doing all of that... but then it's going to get MAPs to run the shields, sensors, piloting, and weapons all at once... much like a mortal pilot would.
Now, if you've got 3 brains, you might have one that does piloting, one that handles sensors, shields, and astrogation, and one that handles weapons, then you avoid a lot of MAPS, and the specialized systems can be more effective (if they've got the standard 25D, they don't need to worry about their piloting skill if they're a weapons droid).
Large enough droidships might have an additional brain with Command functions, or those might belong to a human pilot... there may well be ship captains out there only minimally proficient in piloting, but whose Perception attribute/skills let them Command their various ship systems droids. |
Let's say a ship is using multiple brains for different systems. Would those brains be networked so there is one overall personality, or would each brain retain a separate personality?
Either way works for a clever GM who wants to add some surprises to players lives. |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | ForbinProject wrote: | | Would there be a scale limitation to the size of ship that could be used as the body of a droid brain? |
I would say not, but that you would start running into inefficiencies if your droid is responsible for too many systems.
To use a YT-1300 as an example, you could probably have a single droid brain doing all of that... but then it's going to get MAPs to run the shields, sensors, piloting, and weapons all at once... much like a mortal pilot would.
Now, if you've got 3 brains, you might have one that does piloting, one that handles sensors, shields, and astrogation, and one that handles weapons, then you avoid a lot of MAPS, and the specialized systems can be more effective (if they've got the standard 25D, they don't need to worry about their piloting skill if they're a weapons droid).
Large enough droidships might have an additional brain with Command functions, or those might belong to a human pilot... there may well be ship captains out there only minimally proficient in piloting, but whose Perception attribute/skills let them Command their various ship systems droids. |
Let's say a ship is using multiple brains for different systems. Would those brains be networked so there is one overall personality, or would each brain retain a separate personality?
Either way works for a clever GM who wants to add some surprises to players lives. |
I don't really see much evidence of computer networking in SWU, but I'm mostly limited to the OT.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | Let's say a ship is using multiple brains for different systems. Would those brains be networked so there is one overall personality, or would each brain retain a separate personality?
Either way works for a clever GM who wants to add some surprises to players lives. |
The original post referenced the Millennium Falcon having three droid brains that functioned alright under most circumstances, but had a tendency to bicker, with some suspecting that three would occasionally sabotage each other's systems...
EDIT:
| Star Wars Sourcebook, pg. 41-42 wrote: | | To manage the myriad of melded, jury-rigged and modified systems on the ship, the Falcon's computer has to be extremely flexible and sophisticated. It is: almost to the point of schizophrenia. Originally a Hanx-Wargel SuperFlow IV, the computer also has been torn down and rebuilt more than once. Currently, it contains three separate and distinct droid brains as slave computers and extra memory; though they work together well enough during emergencies, the brains bicker constantly when not fully employed with more important duties. |
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
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Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | Would there be a scale limitation to the size of ship that could be used as the body of a droid brain? |
That's an interesting question. Some droids are very large, and involve a lot of complex attachments. World Devastators and city scale construction droids come to mind, and both are detailed in source material.
What sort of data processing abilities and hardware a given droid has or most easily works with is determined by what "degree" of droid it is, those being one of five different classifications of basic architecture. Depending on that, given droids differ considerably in terms of what SkillWare and TraitWare they most easily accept.
I'd personally consider designing a droid brain to serve as the "nervous system" of a spacecraft to be beyond the abilities of anyone without (A) Droid Engineering, and because it would be truly cross-disciplinary work they'd probably have to work in tandem with someone possessing (A) Starfighter/Capital Ship/Space Transports Engineering. That would be much more complicated than using a droid brain as an advanced autopilot, and you'd have to engineer something to interface directly with a whole slew of ship systems which no existing degree is designed around working so constantly and directly with. You'd also need someone who's intimately familiar with those systems, and how they work together.
One advantage I could see to doing this would be allowing a droid-ship to coordinate repair efforts (as coordinated tasks) with techs and other droids on board. Such a craft would be immediately aware of anything wrong with it, saving a great deal of time ordinarily spent doing testing and diagnosis.
Last edited by Tinman on Fri May 20, 2016 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tinman
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | Hmmm... that's interesting. I always figured that the separation between droid tech skills and computer tech skills was due to the fact that droids have a body with moving parts and such, while computers just have information: the droid programming/repair (or engineering) would require the technician to be able to make the droid "brain" (a computer, by my understanding) interface with the body.
At best (and this is just one way to do it, if one wants to get so technical) I see the "droid brain" being some kind of module that handles the "droid" stuff, while the main thing is still a regular computer.
Anyway, with the gap between real life and sci-fi becoming ever narrower, I suppose we could choose to elevate droids to something beyond possibility and always assume that the real life tech doesn't exist to replicate what Star Wars calls a "droid," even if there are currently robots IRL. |
Well, someone skilled in Computer Programming/Repair or (A) Computer Engineering would probably understand the theory involved in the workings of droid brains quite well, and even grasp some of the application particulars. However, things like construction, deployment and operational parameters would be beyond them without the sort of specialized training and education someone with a degree of skill in Droid Programming or (A) Droid Engineering has.
HDT datafiles are where the disciplines meet, as the creation of HDTs grew out of the specialized application involved in droid artificial intelligence. I'd probably allow a person with a high degree of skill in Droid Programming to attempt to create an HDT, but with a substantial difficulty modifier, because it is an application of the same sort of programming language used to work with droids. However, creating an HDT is an extremely difficult thing as it is, which is why they're enormously expensive. Certain droid models come with smaller die code ones installed as part of their standard configurations. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | Hmmm... that's interesting. I always figured that the separation between droid tech skills and computer tech skills was due to the fact that droids have a body with moving parts and such, while computers just have information: the droid programming/repair (or engineering) would require the technician to be able to make the droid "brain" (a computer, by my understanding) interface with the body.
At best (and this is just one way to do it, if one wants to get so technical) I see the "droid brain" being some kind of module that handles the "droid" stuff, while the main thing is still a regular computer. |
Well, someone skilled in Computer Programming/Repair or (A) Computer Engineering would probably understand the theory involved in the workings of droid brains quite well, and even grasp some of the application particulars. However, things like construction, deployment and operational parameters would be beyond them without the sort of specialized training and education someone with a degree of skill in Droid Programming or (A) Droid Engineering has. |
In my view, most droids have too defining aspects that differentiate them from regular computers. (1) Artificial Intelligence which is just an advanced computer program and the physical construct for this AI to function (the "droid brain"), and (2) a motile "body". Yes it is true that a good droid technician would need to be able to be able to repair the body and deal with the "mind/body" interface (that RAW's computer programming/repair wouldn't handle), but dealing with the AI aspect of droids (that regular computers don't have) should also be more advanced Computer Programming. Since the two skills overlap in this way, I just combined them into a single skill, Computers/Droids. In general working with droids requires more advanced ability than just regular computers without AI or bodies.
I think putting droid brains in ships may be mainly for the extra memory and computer processing power, but the dangers of installing droid brains on your ship come from the unpredictability that AI brings if things go sour ("I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.") But of course in the game there's fun in that. I love quirky starships and droid brains on ships, so I've done that before. I don't like the idea of droid brains controlling vital functions in combat. I like things like the ship won't open doors without you saying please, or it plays music throughout the ship that it feels is appropriate to whatever is happening, like "battle" music it plays during space combat. I've had ships where the droid brains are hidden in the ship somewhere and can't be locate, and the droid's programming even has multiple back-ups throughout the ship so if one location is found the droid's "mind" can "escape" to somewhere else in the ship.
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