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tetsuoh
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 Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:20 am Post subject: Really simple question |
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Is there a page in any of the books that talks about bonus modifiers becoming dice?
example:
I have 3d+2 Str and 2d+2 armor.
do I roll 5d+4 or 6d+1?
We always roll it as 5d+4 but now we got a player asking where it says that and we actually can't find it. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I looked in both the R&E book, the Base 2e book and the game masters screen, and 2e's game master handbook... None mention EITHER way to do it..
I have mostly seen it done the 3d+2 bounty hunter wears 1d+2 armor he rolls 5d+1 (4d+2 to 5d to 5d+1). A rare few have done it the other way 4d+4.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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IIRC this was handled in one of the rules clarifications done at the end of one of the Star Wars Adventure Journals. The ruling surprised me. I think that they said when there was an instance of 3D+2 and 1D+2, the result would be 4D+4. It seemed counter-intuitive to me, but that's where the chips lie.
Now, this could be faulty memory, and when I get the time, I'll be searching for that clarification. They only had them in a couple of scattered issues, but without a lot of time to dedicate to searching, I wouldn't mind someone independently verifying or falsifying what I've said.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: |
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No, wait. It wasn't in the ISB intercepts from the SWAJ. It was posted on the old WEDGE website. I'm not sure if that makes it less "official" especially since it is much more difficult to verify so long after the fact. I can look at my WEDGE files later and see if it actually came from an official source.
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| The only thing I found that is interesting isn't necessarily on point. But on p. 84 of the 2R&E, when discussing the effects of a Force Point on melee damage, the examples doubles a strength score of 2d+2 and gets 4d+4, rather than 5d+1. |
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TyCaine
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:54 am Post subject: |
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I think it can swing either way, though one way slightly favors higher possible rolls, the other favors a higher minimum roll:
3D+2 + 1D+2
If using 5D+1 = the max possible (not including extras from Wild Die) is 31, while the minimum (again not including Wild Die effects) is 6
If using 4D+4 = the max possible (not including extras from Wild Die) is 28, while the minimum (again not including Wild Die effects) is 8
I personally roll them separately and add the values together, only rolling one Wild Die, as this way is covered in the R&E p74 (by my interpretation):
"If the player is rolling two different types of dice at once — for example, rolling the character's starfighter piloting skill and the starship's maneuverability die code — only one die counts as the wild die."
Which to me implies they are rolled separately and the values added together to get final success roll, rather than combining the dice into one roll as above...
T.C.
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Quetzacotl
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TyCaine wrote: | I personally roll them separately and add the values together, only rolling one Wild Die, as this way is covered in the R&E p74 (by my interpretation):
"If the player is rolling two different types of dice at once — for example, rolling the character's starfighter piloting skill and the starship's maneuverability die code — only one die counts as the wild die."
Which to me implies they are rolled separately and the values added together to get final success roll, rather than combining the dice into one roll as above... |
You do realize that this is exactly the same as simply rolling 4D+4?
If I roll 3D+2 with the Wild Die and 1D+2 without a Wild Die and then add them together, you get the same result that you would get when simply rolling 4D+4 -.- |
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quetzacotl wrote: | | TyCaine wrote: | I personally roll them separately and add the values together, only rolling one Wild Die, as this way is covered in the R&E p74 (by my interpretation):
"If the player is rolling two different types of dice at once — for example, rolling the character's starfighter piloting skill and the starship's maneuverability die code — only one die counts as the wild die."
Which to me implies they are rolled separately and the values added together to get final success roll, rather than combining the dice into one roll as above... |
You do realize that this is exactly the same as simply rolling 4D+4?
If I roll 3D+2 with the Wild Die and 1D+2 without a Wild Die and then add them together, you get the same result that you would get when simply rolling 4D+4 -.- |
T.C. was drawing a distinction between 4d+4 and 5d+1, not between 4d+4 and (3d+2 + 1d+2).
Between the text T.C. quoted and the example I pointed out, I'd think you'd have enough to satisfy your player, Tetsuoh.
Last edited by nuclearwookiee on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Quetzacotl
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Didn't sound like that to me, thats why I made that post. |
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quetzacotl wrote: | | Didn't sound like that to me, thats why I made that post. |
No problem, just pointing out that the math he gave was for 4d+4 and 5d+1. |
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Phalanks Balas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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well D6 system is based on the foloowing rule : 1 pip + 1 pip + 1 pip = 1D
So I thing 3D+1 + 1D+1 = 5D+1
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TyCaine
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quetzacotl wrote: | | Didn't sound like that to me, thats why I made that post. |
Timing...  My post appeared immediately after another post which may have appeared to change the context.
I agree 4D+4 is the same as 3D+2 + 1D+2 with one wild die being rolled.
However, the way they are added together changes the possible values.
If you add 3D+2 + 1D+2 by pips you get 5D+1
If added 'directly' you get 4D+4
The two are close, but not exact, my personal preference is to roll them separately and add the values together with only one wild die being counted, because the math of adding them together changes the potential outcomes.
As I mentioned, if using 5D+1 = the upper limit is 31, while the lower limit is 6 (not including Wild Die effects)
If using 4D+4 = the upper limit is 28, while the lower limit is 8 (not including Wild Die effects)
to my mind rolling them separately as 3D+2 & 1D+2 removes the ambiguity of which is correct, and is stated in the R&E as I quoted that this seems to be what was in mind.
With that said, 3D+2 (upper is 20, lower is 5) and 1D+2 (upper 8, lower 3), when combined (upper 28, lower 8 ) seem to match up with 4D+4 rather than 5D+1, which suggest adding them together directly as opposed to by pips, is the way to go.
I'm not saying either method is correct or incorrect, it's just the way I read the R&E so I prefer to roll separately to remove the question.
T.C.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | | The only thing I found that is interesting isn't necessarily on point. But on p. 84 of the 2R&E, when discussing the effects of a Force Point on melee damage, the examples doubles a strength score of 2d+2 and gets 4d+4, rather than 5d+1. |
But that is flat out doubling the score, not adding them together..
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Phalanks Balas wrote: | well D6 system is based on the foloowing rule : 1 pip + 1 pip + 1 pip = 1D
So I thing 3D+1 + 1D+1 = 5D+1 |
Indeed, for general purposes, though there are some exceptions. The question is whether or not this is one of the exceptions.
For example there in one of the Adventure Journals you find a freighter that gives you a +10 bonus (not 3D+1) to your repair roll for certain types of modifications, and the Emptiness Force power provides a +6 bonus (and not a +2D). So, though it's the general rule, this is not unlike the discussion as to whether this is like the "wild die or no wild die" discussion we had a little while ago. Are there exceptions to this general progression? Yes. Is this one of those exceptions? Well... that's what we're trying to figure out.
Does anyone have Bill Smith on speed dial?
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Quetzacotl
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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@TyCain
I think we're talking past each other here ^^
When you say that:
| Quote: | If you add 3D+2 + 1D+2 by pips you get 5D+1
If added 'directly' you get 4D+4
The two are close, but not exact, my personal preference is to roll them separately and add the values together with only one wild die being counted, because the math of adding them together changes the potential outcomes. |
It sounds to me like you're saying that you're using a third option that is different from the two.
And thats why I said, that rolling them seperately with just one wild die and adding the results, it's exactly the same as just "adding them directly", so there is no real need to roll them seperately here (because, as you said yourself, rolling 3D+2 and 1D+2 and adding them together is the exact same thing as simply rolling 4D+4).
Maybe I'm just nit-picking here, but I wanted to avoid the confusion ^^ |
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