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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose if people just had to have a lightwhip that reflected blaster bolts, remove all bonus's and penalties as well as its ability to do damage from range. Bump the difficulty to Difficult (18) and change damage to STR+1D (max of 7D) and call it a day.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | I have been watching this posting with great interest. Here are some things I came up from different sources as well as some original material:
Sith Lighwhip
Model: lightwhip
Type: Custom melee weapon
Scale: Character
Skill: Lightwhip (this is a specialized skill)
Cost: Not available for sale
Availability: 4,X
Difficulty: Moderate (13)
Damage: STR+3D+2 (Maximum 7D)
Range: 1/3/5
Game Notes:
1. A lightwhip cannot be used to parry.
2. A lightwhip may be parried at a -2D skill modifier.
3. A lightwhip gets a +1D modifier for the purposes of snagging/trapping/tripping.
4. A lightwhip is difficult to wield properly at short range making the difficulty one level higher, Difficult.
5. A lightwhip is more effective and easier to use at long range, making it one level lower, Easy. |
SO its base difficulty is Easier to use than a regular LS (Difficult for the LS versus mid Moderate here), has a Damage higher base but capped at 7d, which control can still enhance.. Seems a little off.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Beyond "being off" do you have a specific comment of what seems to be "off" or what you think should be changed?
Keeping in mind it is NOT a lightsaber. Kinda like saying a bowling ball is a volleyball. Not even in the same ballpark. Honestly it sounds like you want an alternate weapons that does everything a lightsaber does. In that case, keep all the stats and mechanics for a lightsaber and call it something else, Lightbutterknife or Lightcoffeewarmer.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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For one, its supposed to be harder to use, so why is the difficulty lower?
Second, since it is the same tech, why is its damage Str based, and not a flat # like with other light weapons..
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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My understanding of the Sith Lightwhip was it not only incorporated energy but physical elements as well. Which for some reason other than a DAMN whip cannot be parried, was giving Skywalker fits.
I am not opposed to a flat weapon damage for the item, which makes it easier. I gauged the ease of use and distance on my own real world experience.
If someone wants to make the base difficulty Difficult, that is fine with me, its makes Short Range Very Difficult (25) (1m or closer) and Long Range (3-5m) Moderate (13). If you use the suggestions I made for distance and use of a whip.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I suppose if people just had to have a lightwhip that reflected blaster bolts. |
I'm curious about your reasoning with regards to why a weapon of the lightsaber family wouldn't be able to reflect blaster bolts. It is, after all, essentially a flexible lightsaber (per the Wookieepedia article). As such, parrying a blaster bolt with a lightwhip would simply be a matter of getting the whip into the proper position at the proper moment to intersect the path of the bolt, just like with a lightsaber.
Also, while I recognize your practical experience in wielding a whip, I feel you are not taking into account the space opera nature of the setting. Your rules for no parrying might well work for non-FS characters, but the primary wielders of lightwhips will be Force sensitives, with the same abilities of combat precognition as lightsaber wielders. Additionally, as mentioned above, these characters will also have telekinetic abilities, which (if the whip used is composed of energy wrapped around a solid core) could be used to bolster the whip (or even just a section of it) in mid-air, essentially acting as a medium for a telekinetic parry. It may be far-fetched, but this is Star Wars, and the rule of cool is in effect (i.e. if it looks cool, put it in; we'll find a technical description for it later).
Perhaps what's needed is a Lightwhip Combat Force power, similar to Lightsaber Combat, and include in the stats that a Lightwhip can't parry unless the wielder knows this power and has it up.
Another potential feature for a lightwhip would be a variable length whip. It's my understanding that there are various whip lengths optimized for various situations, from the big bull whips that can hit meters away to shorter whips more optimized for closer work. A high-tech whip could extend or retract its whip at the touch of a button to better fit the situation.
Also, based on the tone of your latest posts, I can't help but feel you are getting frustrated. I have been there, and I understand it can be frustrating when other forum members just don't seem to get your idea, even though it is perfectly clear to you, but in the end, we are all just trying to help make each other's ideas the best they can be. Sometimes, even a successful defense of your concept can reveal ways in which it can be improved.
P.S. Long time members who see the irony of me being the one to say this, go ahead and laugh; it is kind of funny.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | My understanding of the Sith Lightwhip was it not only incorporated energy but physical elements as well. Which for some reason other than a d*mn whip cannot be parried, was giving Skywalker fits. |
I never particularly liked this description as to why the lightwhip was so difficult for Luke to counter. I've always thought a better description was that Lumiya's light whip more closely resembled a scourge or a cat-of-nine-tails, with multiple attacks coming in simultaneously that Luke's single saber was unable to block. His subsequent use of a second lightsaber allowed him to defeat Lumiya, and my theory is that having two blades enabled him to better parry multiple attacks and get inside her range.
Most subsequent representations of the lightwhip show a single, flexible whip several meters in length. My take on the lightwhip (both Lumiya's version and the subsequently depicted single whip variants) is that it is a solid core that provides a wave-guide for an energy field that wraps around the core, which IMO makes for an easier technical description than a flexible, floppy lightsaber blade. If the lightwhip were more like a Force Whip (flexible version of the Force Pike), it could dial down its damage and be used to Stun targets, and could also be used to perform some of the tricks mentioned in the whips article without chopping things to pieces.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Okay had an Inquisitor in last weeks game who had a lightwhip. I retract what I said earlier about lightwhip not being able to smack blaster bolts out of the air. He did exactly that and no one batted an eye and ... it was COOL as hell.
I would further change it to having a 5m range and no penalties for use. Making its base difficulty the same as a lightsaber.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Okay had an Inquisitor in last weeks game who had a lightwhip. I retract what I said earlier about lightwhip not being able to smack blaster bolts out of the air. He did exactly that and no one batted an eye and ... it was COOL as hell. |
Very nice. It does make for a cool in-game effect.
In my experience making stats and rules, I have found it easier to simply make a task more difficult than flat out ruling it impossible. With that in mind, I can accept that it is impossible to use a whip to parry a melee weapon in the traditional sense: specifically, that a whip would have little or no effect when attempting to block a sword or club. However, the same could be said of blocking said weapons using unarmed techniques. In such situations, the RAW states that an unarmed parry of a melee weapon is not impossible, merely more difficult. IMO (and based on my own limited martial arts experience), the increased difficulty comes from having to get inside the opponents defense and parry the limb holding the weapon rather than the weapon itself.
With that in mind, is it possible for a whip to do something similar? To parry not by blocking the attack but by striking at the limb holding the weapon? Such a scenario would make parrying attacks possible, but only at increased difficulty.
| Quote: | | I would further change it to having a 5m range and no penalties for use. Making its base difficulty the same as a lightsaber. |
I've written up rules for a ranging system for melee and brawling combat with an eye towards things like whips and lances / spears. IIRC, a whip is optimized for a specific length or distance, and that, inside that distance, a whip's effectiveness drops off rather quickly. As such, a whip fighter would need a secondary, shorter whip to use in close? Is this correct?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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The original rules I posted took that into account, but to be honest, its Star Wars. Quick and easy win over complicated and exacting. I mean you could incorporate more complex rules if you want, but I don't think its really in keeping with the Star Wars atmosphere.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Here are my updated rules after having a chance to playtest the old one last week in one my gaming groups.
Sith Lightwhip
Model: lightwhip
Type: Custom melee weapon
Scale: Character
Skill: Lightwhip
Cost: Not available for sale
Availability: 4,X
Difficulty: Difficult [18]
Damage: 5D
Range: 5m
Game Notes:
1. Lightwhip skill is the same as Lightsaber (SW2R&E p.39)
2. A lightwhip may be Melee parried at a -2D [-7] skill modifier. There is no negative modifier to attempt to Dodge.
3. A lightwhip gets a +1D modifier for the purposes of snagging/trapping/tripping.
4. Lightsaber Combat Force skill is used for special effects (SW2E&R p.148)
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Last edited by shootingwomprats on Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still not seeing why the light whip's base difficulty to use, [18] is lower than the regular lightsaber's is [20]
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I'm still not seeing why the light whip's base difficulty to use, [18] is lower than the regular lightsaber's is [20] |
It's not. Remember that by the current RAW, Difficult is the 16-20 range, not 20. Some GMs might just go with the max difficulty as the default, but other tend to go with the mid-range. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've always thought it was a flat 20 (top end difficult).. but both the blue cover and the R&E 2nd ed book just list it as diff.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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SW2E R&E p.89 "Melee Combat" states, "Every melee weapon has a difficulty to use ... (Pick a specific difficulty number for the attack)." In the two melee combat examples provided: "The vibroblade has a Moderate difficulty to use; the gamemaster picks a difficulty number of 14" and "The brawling difficulty is Very Easy; the gamemaster picks a difficulty number of 5."
It can be inferred that the harder the difficulty the lower it drops in difficulty range. In the above examples a Veay Easy [1-5] was given a 5, whereas the Moderate [11-15] was given a 14.
So the difficulty number is arbitrarily picked by the GM. I certainly understand wanting to streamline things, especially in the case of melee weapons, and deciding to go with the max difficulty number. My GMing style is is to pick the middle of the range and adjust depending on the situation.
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