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How does Hyperspace work?

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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:59 pm Post subject:

Whill wrote:

I'm even ok with coordinates being calculated by one astrogator using one navicomputer and then transmitting them to nearby hyper-capable fighters making nearly-identical jumps at nearly identical times.

crmcneill wrote:

What would the rules for that be, I wonder? And what would the chances be of an enemy decoding the transmitted coordinates and following?

Bren wrote:

Well we just transmit the coordinates. Sort of like how one communicates with other ships normally. It is used very frequently in the Rogue Squadron novels. Unless the GM is looking for a complication we just assume that the coordinates are transmittted and received successfully. If we want to make it a bit harder, we require the other ships navigator or astromech to make a roll, but with a low difficulty due to receiving a set of coordinates.

Intercepting coordinates would be like intercepting any other transmission. Typically I assume most transmissions are broadcast on a secure frequency, in code, scrambled, or sent by tightbeam transmission - minimizing the chance of useful detection. Now if the enemy has broken your code, that could be a problem - but no more so that if the commander ordered everyone to rendezvous at Sullust and they calculated their own coordinates individually.

Also, unless you transmit coordinates you are likely to get a scattered arrival with ships appearing seconds, minutes, or fractions of a lightyear away from each other or worse yet arriving in the same spot at the same time. I assume some type of shared coordinates (with appropriately agreed minor changes to avoid collisions*) is a requiretment for squadron and fleet movement.

Sure, what he said. Since the 80's I've imagined that the Rebel Fleet jumping from Sullust to Endor was in a coordinated hyperspace jump.

Bren wrote:

*Which would/could require someone to make an additional navigation roll.

crmcneill wrote:

That seems fair. I know the Imperial Navy OOB in the ImpSB includes a Navigation division as part of the support fleet that is responsible for coordinating hyperspace jumps and making sure that groups of ships make coordinated hyperspace jumps.

Maybe it could require a Communications roll for the transmission/coding part. I imagine that the primary (more difficult) Astrogation would likely be done by the chief Navigator on the fleet's flagship. Perhaps there even has to be a special (more powerful) navicomputer calculating jumps for an entire fleet.

Although Gold Leader seemed in charge of coordinating at least the starfighter contingency in the jump to Endor. Or maybe they all got the transmission and Lando was just in charge of coordinating the initial vector and timing of the implentation of the transmitted astrogation coordinates needed to make the jump (maybe skill-coordinating with the master navigator).
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:03 am Post subject:

Whill wrote:

I imagine that the primary (more difficult) Astrogation would likely be done by the chief Navigator on the fleet's flagship. Perhaps there even has to be a special (more powerful) navicomputer calculating jumps for an entire fleet.

That brings up a point. Since its possible to buy upgrades to just about every other part on a ship, should it also be possible to buy an upgraded nav computer that either adds a bonus to the navigator's Astrogation skill or decreases the difficulty of the jump?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Bren
Vice Admiral

Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:00 am Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

Or just calculates faster.

Though personally, I would limit the possible bonuses of any navigation equipment. Instead I would likely make an enhanced navigation computer a one of a kind or special item. It seems in Star Wars that the ability to navigate well tends to be a character attribute more that a function of better machinery. And I would include droids like R2 as being characters with attributes rather than mere machinery.

Last edited by Bren on Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject:

Bren wrote:

Or just calculates faster.

Though personally, I would most limit the possible bonuses of any navigation equipment. Instead I would likely make a special navigation computer a one of a kind or special item. It seems in Star Wars that the ability to navigate well tends to be a character attribute more that a function of better machinery. And I would include droids like R2 as being characters with attributes rather than mere machinery.

I agree with you on droids as characters, but I do think it should be possible to purchase a "better" nav computer. Faster calculations, auto-collision avoidance software, or other tech software would result in decreased difficulty of calculating a jump.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Bren
Vice Admiral

Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

I don't recall mention of better versions of the existing navigation computers in any movie or EU sources, but I agree that conceptionally it doesn't seem different than better fire control for a gun. Yet somehow, I see Lando Calrissian out navigating Han Solo because Lando installed the Hyperdyne 940 Navigation system on his space yacht and I just go - yech! Sorry, I'm just stuck with that image. Crying or Very sad

I should think you wouldn't have any trouble designing nav computers with various bonuses however. Possibly something like what was done with better portable computers providing bonuses to the Computer programming skill would also work for different models of nav computers that would provide bonuses to the nav skill.

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject:

Bren wrote:

True, but viewed from that perspective, it is little different than a race or dogfight between Han Solo in a Z-95 and Lando Calrissian in an A-Wing. Even if his skill level is superior, Han would still have to work extra hard to overcome the technology and performance differences between the two fighters. Plus, with both characters having relatively high dice levels in the appropriate skills, a 1D-2D bonus or a one-level shift in difficulty level would have a minor or minimal effect on the end result.

Quote:

Exactly. Now the question becomes what is the best way to signify the differences between different "grades" of nav computers.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:16 pm Post subject:

Yet another random thought from the mind of mcneill... Galactic Positioning System So, we have the Global Positioning System here on Earth that helps with navigation based on signals picked up from orbiting satellites. That got me thinking about the parallels to the HoloNet, with thousands of satellites in deep space broadcasting and relaying signals. Would it be possible for a ship's navigation system to have a passive receiver tied into its navcomputer that would allow it to make precision hyperspace jumps based on hypercomm signals from the satellites in range? _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996. The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

Bren
Vice Admiral

Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

Galactic Positioning System

I think there are a lot of examples in the EU of places that are "uncharted" or that one can get lost in - e.g. various nebulas, the Drift in Elrood Sector, etc. So you would want any GPS to not work everywhere. Plus if it did, you would give up so many possible plots.

Also, I would presume that after the formation of the Empire, there was some dismantling of the hyper relay system or whatever it was that allowed everyone almost everywhere during the Clone Wars to speak real time to holo images. It seems like by ESB only large ships like Star Destroyers or Super Star Destroyers have that capability. Not people on the move on the ground or little tiny, Jedi Starfighter sized vessels. I believe the Imperial Source Book mentions a dismantling of the prior system. But you could have the New Republic or Galactic Republic or whatever recreate a system. Which of course the Vong would immediately target. Twisted Evil

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject:

Bren wrote:

crmcneill wrote:

Galactic Positioning System

I agree. My original thought on this was that it would be most effective in towards the Core, where there are multiple signals to detect, but the further out one goes from the core, the fewer hypercomm relays there are, until you get to Wild Space and the Unknown Regions where there is absolutely no signal at all.

Quote:

Also, I would presume that after the formation of the Empire, there was some dismantling of the hyper relay system or whatever it was that allowed everyone almost everywhere during the Clone Wars to speak real time to holo images. It seems like by ESB only large ships like Star Destroyers or Super Star Destroyers have that capability. Not people on the move on the ground or little tiny, Jedi Starfighter sized vessels. I believe the Imperial Source Book mentions a dismantling of the prior system.

My read on it was more that they took the system and made it purely military, so that the public no longer had access to it. This is just a preliminary idea, of course, but since this unit is a simple receiver and signal processor, lacking any sort of broadcast component, it would be feasible (at some point) to have the technology plugged into smaller vessels. It wouldn't allow them to communicate over the Holonet, but it would allow them to make practical use of the signals...

Quote:

But you could have the New Republic or Galactic Republic or whatever recreate a system. Which of course the Vong would immediately target. :twisted:

In The Final Prophecy, the YV did actually field a drone that attacked the Holonet, destroying all the relays and disrupting communications across the galaxy. Rather than replacing the relays, the Republic fielded corvettes fitted with holonet transceivers to act as mobile relays for military communications. I'm betting that a SWU GPS system would cease to function at that point unless the holonet relay broadcast system from the corvettes and the relays included accurate location data as part of the transmission.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

Fallon Kell
Commodore

Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject:

Bren wrote:

I see Lando Calrissian out navigating Han Solo because Lando installed the Hyperdyne 940 Navigation system on his space yacht and I just go - yech! Sorry, I'm just stuck with that image. Crying or Very sad

Because my dad has worked in professional video all my life, I grew up using Adobe Photoshop when other kids my age were doodling around on MS Paint. Photoshop is and was great software and could do so many things that Paint couldn't, but when I compare my work in Photoshop to some artists' work in Paint from around the same time, I find myself completely overmatched. I doubt Lando would fare any better against Han than I did against the MS Paint artists...

Another way to look at it is what are the odds that you could forge a better katana than a Japanese master because you have access to modern air hammers?
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