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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Darth_Kjeran wrote: |
Well, that novel was written before the prequels came out, so all bets are off. It all comes down to whether or not one accepts the prequels as canon for their game or not.
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All bets are not off. Even during the prequel era there were Jedi who had families. It wasn't something the Jedi Council endorssed, by it was something that happened. Corran Horn's biological grandfather is one such example, another such example is Kam Solusar's father. Thracia Cho Leem, Vergere's master, had several children after becoming a Jedi, something the council looked down on.
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: |
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I don't completely throw out the prequels either.
But still... geez I can't abide by the contradictions.
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Vanion
Lieutenant
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Boomer wrote: | I don't completely throw out the prequels either.
But still... geez I can't abide by the contradictions. |
Just do what I do... pick through and use what you like, and toss out the rest. Personally, I like the idea that strength in the force is something passed down from one generation to another... thinned out by generations that did not use their foce talents, nor grow in the force... but nevertheless had the potential to do so.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Well, regardless of which way you want to run it, the Force is as the Force does. If the Force can lead a Jedi (or even a non-trained sensitive) to a place where their skills are needed, I'm sure it can make sure that there are sensitives born to carry on the legacy. And if we're taking the prequels as canon (a completely DIFFERENT thread, mind you) then apparently the Force can spontaneously conceive children as it wishes. So whether potential Jedi are going to be truly "rare" during the Rebellion or not, there will ALWAYS be Jedi candidates. The Force will see to it. |
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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Not to start a debate or thread hi-jack, (we could start a new thread if reply to this is needed); but the prequels are cannon. A GM can however chose to ignore any elements they dislike; as I do with Midicloreans.
As for force conception, if you pay attention to episode 3, Palp says his old master even discovered the secret to creating life using the force. Not to say difinativly that Anakin was created using that force technique, but the possibility does exist. It is of note, and possible since it was mentioned in the movie, and typically things mentioned do have purpose or reason. I could see strong cases made on both sides of Anakin being concieved from the force's will, or Anakin being the result of the sith's experimentation / use of the "rumored force ability".
Trust me though, I can understand how some aspects of the prequels are disliked.
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Just to clarify: | Quote: | | And if we're taking the prequels as canon (a completely DIFFERENT thread, mind you) |
was written because we've already had plenty of issues with incongruity between the original trilogy and the prequels. I wrote this to acknowledge that fact, and to allow for the numerous people who don't hold them as canon because of the inconsistencies. |
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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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I understand what you're saying, but my main point was no matter what a fan wants to use or not use in a game the prequels are cannon. There's actually a systematic approach to cannon with all 6 main movies being the core cannon, then the other things like comics, books, EU, other movies, ect have different levels - I just don't remember where the other stuff fits in.
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As for force conception, if you pay attention to episode 3, Palp says his old master even discovered the secret to creating life using the force. |
Yeah, you just had to raise an eyebrow at that leer when he told Anakin that... |
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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Not everyone I know caught that.....but the true Star Wars fans I know all did. I figured it was something we noticed because of the years of gaming set us up to look for those kind of details.....in our group at least.
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah...
"By the way, I know a guy who knew a guy who could (giving a creepy looking indicating I know the next part applies specifically to you) LIFE! And he was like, totally a Jedi, in the same way all Sith are Jedi. So you know it must be good."
...Palpatine delivered it with the same ingenious craftiness as a telemarketer, or insurance con artist, or investment scammer.
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My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette! |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Boomer wrote: | Yeah...
"By the way, I know a guy who knew a guy who could (giving a creepy looking indicating I know the next part applies specifically to you) LIFE! And he was like, totally a Jedi, in the same way all Sith are Jedi. So you know it must be good."
...Palpatine delivered it with the same ingenious craftiness as a telemarketer, or insurance con artist, or investment scammer. |
Yup... the good ol' bait & HOOK! |
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The Brain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Using Anakin as an example of the council's wisdom in making marriage forbidden isn't a good one I mean this is the guy who manages to figure out who's a sith lord but can't figure out that "hey the evil deceptive guy up to his eyeballs in a gazillion layers of subterfuge might just be jerking me around for his own ends."
Now if you take episodes I-III as canon it would seem to me that the jedi order by that time had become rather stagnant and introverted being more concerned with rigid dogmatic procedures rather than results, and so old Palpy shows up and totally blindsides them. |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Well, even Yoda admitted to Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi that the Order had increasing problems; increasing numbers of Jedi were apparently becoming more and more arrogant in their abilities- a definite step down the dark path. Even some Masters were guilty of this, he said. So it's not all that surprising that Palpatine was able to cold-cock them like that. Too many of 'em were like, "Hey, look at me! I'm a Jedi and I can do anything!" for them to be aware enough of the goings-on, even with all the warnings Yoda and Windu were giving about the dark side clouding everything, making it harder and harder to see what was going on. |
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Two answer the question in the topic.
The Short answer is, "Yes."
The long answer is, "Blah blah blah blah blah blah..." for 5 pages!
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My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | Using Anakin as an example of the council's wisdom in making marriage forbidden isn't a good one I mean this is the guy who manages to figure out who's a sith lord but can't figure out that "hey the evil deceptive guy up to his eyeballs in a gazillion layers of subterfuge might just be jerking me around for his own ends."
Now if you take episodes I-III as canon it would seem to me that the jedi order by that time had become rather stagnant and introverted being more concerned with rigid dogmatic procedures rather than results, and so old Palpy shows up and totally blindsides them. |
Yes, but by the time he figured out what Palpantine was he was already on the hook. It's hard to turn your back on the person you identify with as a father figure; especially since he regarded Anakin with "unconditional love". Do I think Palp really loved Anakin - not really. But he treated Anakin that way. His "golden boy" who could do no wrong, who Anakin could discuss anything with and Palp never judged him. Then there's Ben, more like a brother - not taking a strong authority role and judging and evaluating Anakin's every move. Scolding and correcting him instead of taking a more "fatherly" role. Besides being too deep to see the deception; Anakin's got his emotional attachment to Palp - he was basicly torn between his "job" and his "father". Now I'm not going to justify his actions, but who would turn their father over to their job to be killed because your employer said it was what had to be done for the good of the planet? Would you stand by and watch your father be killed by an employee of your company because they said it had to be that way? Just some food for thought.
Anakin is a good example of why Jedi shouldn't marry - he is the worst fear case everyone doesn't want happening. He isn't the only possible outcome, but those who can't seperate their emotions are the ones that have the most problems with this type of situation. The ones that can seperate their emotions can handle it, and may get counsel approval. (Depending on timeframe.)
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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