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Bren
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 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Whats the reasoning to have Force Jump and Climp/Jump as separate actions while Enhance Attribut (STR) and Climb/Jump should be one action? |
I wondered that too.
In the movies IIR we only see the Jedi jumping without any other action. However, whomever they are fighting is typically sporting enough to let the Jedi land before attacking.  |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | In the movies IIR we only see the Jedi jumping without any other action. However, whomever they are fighting is typically sporting enough to let the Jedi land before attacking. |
Seen the new trailer for Star Wars: The Old Republic? Not nearly so sporting. Check it out here.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | In the movies IIR we only see the Jedi jumping without any other action. However, whomever they are fighting is typically sporting enough to let the Jedi land before attacking. |
Seen the new trailer for Star Wars: The Old Republic? Not nearly so sporting. Check it out here. |
You fooled me with the word new there.. 
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Seen the new trailer for Star Wars: The Old Republic? Not nearly so sporting. |
I already have enough internal inconsistency with the WEG ship design without adding more rules inconsistency by trying to reconcile including the antics from the computer games. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I will also note that MAPs are a reign in for all characters, not just Jedi.
For example, elite stormtroopers become less dangerous if using their helmet comlink, triggering MFTAS, or using HUD becomes an additional action. |
Never thought of doing that for Stormies...
| Quote: | Atm I allow half Control as bonus to damage and half Sense as bonus to Lightsaber skill.
Im thinking of modifying this further, also taking into consideration that I think that lightsaber damage is to low to begin with.
'Standard' Lightsabers have a damage rating of 6D.
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Z. Why do you feel LS damage is low as is, Is not the 5d damage (10.5 ave over soak for mudanes) not enough?
| Quote: | When having Lightsaber Combat activated the Jedi gets to add 1 pip do damage for each full D in Control and 1 pip to the Lightsaber skill for each full D in Sense. This will put more emphasis on the skill Lightsaber relative to Sense.
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Now this i like.
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Never thought of doing that for Stormies...
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I am curious why not?
| garhkal wrote: | Z. Why do you feel LS damage is low as is, Is not the 5d damage (10.5 ave over soak for mudanes) not enough?
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Can't speak for Z, but no I don't think 5D is necessarily enough.
In the movies we see lightsabers easily sever limbs and heads; and horizontally bisect torsos of humans (including armored opponents like Jango Fett), aliens, and droids (including magna droids 5D+2 to resist damage).
We see an injured Luke easily sever the arm of a wampa ice monster (7D strength). A severed limb is at least 9+ points over resistance. That is not a very likely result of 5D vs. 7D.
So yes, I think damage needs to be potentially above 5D. Which is why I use a system that makes the Jedi choose whether to allocate dice to lightsaber combat (essentially to hit and to parry) or to damage. |
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S-Foil
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | We see an injured Luke easily sever the arm of a wampa ice monster (7D strength). A severed limb is at least 9+ points over resistance. That is not a very likely result of 5D vs. 7D.
So yes, I think damage needs to be potentially above 5D. Which is why I use a system that makes the Jedi choose whether to allocate dice to lightsaber combat (essentially to hit and to parry) or to damage. |
According to the SW Trilogy Sourcebook (SE) as of the Battle of Hoth Luke Skywalker has a lightsaber skill of 7D+2, Control 9D, and Sense 7D. Assuming he was able to activate Lightsaber Combat before taking a swing at the Wampa he would have been able to add 7D to his lightsaber's damage roll (5D + 9D - 2D for MAPs) for a grand total of 12D of damage. That's an average of 42 points of damage, or equal than the maximum possible STR roll of the Wampa. The Wampa's average STR roll is only 24 so it's lucky a severed arm was the extent of the damage. This is also discounting Wild Die rolls on both sides.
I think MAPs and Force powers work just fine in the RAW. A lower level character should have to spend FPs and CPs if they want to attempt higher level heroics. MAPs for higher level characters help rein them in a bit so they don't just have an "I Win" button they can press all the time. In the above example Luke is able to pour a lot of extra dice into his damage against the Wampa but he would think twice about standing tall in front of the Wampa if he had to do much else at the same time. One on one the Wampa was outmatched but Luke fighting a trio of Dark Jedi would be a different situation altogether.
Also, howdy, this I'm new to the forum. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I am curious why not?
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Being that the MFAS seems to 'always be active', along with their comlink being tongue mounted, i see kicking it in as a free action.
| Quote: | According to the SW Trilogy Sourcebook (SE) as of the Battle of Hoth Luke Skywalker has a lightsaber skill of 7D+2, Control 9D, and Sense 7D. Assuming he was able to activate Lightsaber Combat before taking a swing at the Wampa he would have been able to add 7D to his lightsaber's damage roll (5D + 9D - 2D for MAPs) for a grand total of 12D of damage. That's an average of 42 points of damage, or equal than the maximum possible STR roll of the Wampa. The Wampa's average STR roll is only 24 so it's lucky a severed arm was the extent of the damage. This is also discounting Wild Die rolls on both sides.
I think MAPs and Force powers work just fine in the RAW. A lower level character should have to spend FPs and CPs if they want to attempt higher level heroics. MAPs for higher level characters help rein them in a bit so they don't just have an "I Win" button they can press all the time. In the above example Luke is able to pour a lot of extra dice into his damage against the Wampa but he would think twice about standing tall in front of the Wampa if he had to do much else at the same time. One on one the Wampa was outmatched but Luke fighting a trio of Dark Jedi would be a different situation altogether.
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Precicely. All those on screen instances where a LS was used to carve someone up, was by a jedi with pretty high Cont/Sense.. so those d added into the LS damage.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Precicely. All those on screen instances where a LS was used to carve someone up, was by a jedi with pretty high Cont/Sense.. so those d added into the LS damage. |
I'm not so sure with regards to Luke's posted stats for ESB. If they really were "as of the Battle of Hoth," his Force abilities seem a little high. IMO, the posted stats look more like what he would have at Bespin, after having been trained under Yoda.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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S-Foil
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Precicely. All those on screen instances where a LS was used to carve someone up, was by a jedi with pretty high Cont/Sense.. so those d added into the LS damage. |
I'm not so sure with regards to Luke's posted stats for ESB. If they really were "as of the Battle of Hoth," his Force abilities seem a little high. IMO, the posted stats look more like what he would have at Bespin, after having been trained under Yoda. |
The Galaxy Guide 3 (first edition as that's what I have) and the Special Edition Trilogy sourcebook both agree on Luke's Force skills. As of Yavin he is listed as having 3D in Control and Sense and three years have passed since Yavin and Hoth. Time wise his progresion makes sense though he does break the "you need a teacher" rule. I can forgive the "GM" in this case since Luke is after all a main character. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:54 am Post subject: |
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[quote="S-Foil"] | crmcneill wrote: | | The Galaxy Guide 3 (first edition as that's what I have) and the Special Edition Trilogy sourcebook both agree on Luke's Force skills. As of Yavin he is listed as having 3D in Control and Sense and three years have passed since Yavin and Hoth. Time wise his progresion makes sense though he does break the "you need a teacher" rule. I can forgive the "GM" in this case since Luke is after all a main character. |
I'm not disputing the source itself, just the source's accuracy. If he could jump 5 or more dice in all three of his Force skills without a teacher, he wouldn't have needed Yoda. If he had 7D in Alter while he was hanging in the cave, levitating his lightsaber wouldn't have taken nearly as much effort as it seemed to in the movie. His listed stats "as of the Battle of Hoth" are more appropriate for "the Force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet," as in someone who was better than most, but would probably get his tail handed to him in a stand-up fight with Vader.
You can roll with it if you like. Personally, I'm going to add Luke's ESB stats to the long list of things WEG screwed up (if only by putting them at the wrong place in the timeline).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Well, the movies showing lightsabers cutting through 'everything' might be added Control dice or just plain Lightsaber damage. Since the idea about 'added Control' was brought in by WEG (probably so that non-Jedis could not benefit from the lightsaber to any degree). I guess we can assume the latter.
I feel that 5D just is too low. A combat oriented character with a vibroblade can easily reach 6D and even considering that this is physical damage (most Armours +1D) they are on the same level. Even if picked up by an ordinary man, a lightsaber should be dangerous thing (even if also to the wielder).
Raising the damage to 6D while decreasing the damage bonus actually lowers the effective damage in most cases. At Control 3D by the RAW rules a lightsaber deal 8D in damage, while with my rule it deals 7D. This is what Im after. Raising the low end damage scale while lowering the high end.
The idea to reduce the Sense bonus came from my days playing 1st edition where all Sense did was letting you use Sense instead of Melee Parry. This rule might seen harsh, but I dont like the 'Im a Jedi, I automatically excel at close combat' idea that we have with 2nd and revised (more or less anyway). Now you actually have to put down some CPs into Lightsaber skill.
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| S-Foil wrote: | | Also, howdy, this I'm new to the forum. |
Welcome S-Foil! |
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| S-Foil wrote: | | The Galaxy Guide 3 (first edition as that's what I have) and the Special Edition Trilogy sourcebook both agree on Luke's Force skills. As of Yavin he is listed as having 3D in Control and Sense and three years have passed since Yavin and Hoth. Time wise his progresion makes sense though he does break the "you need a teacher" rule. I can forgive the "GM" in this case since Luke is after all a main character. |
Our rationale for Luke's progression is that as the central character in the original three movies, he gets CPs not on his actions in the films, but on ticket sales for the films. 
But even so, I agree the stats in ESB sourcebook seem more like stats at the end of the film or at least after training with Yoda, rather than at the beginning of the film. Even with an Alter of only 5D a PC should be able to move that lightsaber a bit faster, though I suppose it appears more dramatic as filmed. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Maybe 6d for ls's with different crystals (as i remember there are some that can go that high)..
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