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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I have yet to play under a gm who allowed Ab/Dis to work on kinetic energy.. |
True, but it isn't such a huge step. After all, most forms of energy attack do damage by the transfer of an energy effect into the mass that makes up the target. Kinetic energy does the same through impact between solid objects. |
The force power simply parallels and is consistent with the distinction in the armor rules e.g. stormtrooper armor protects +2D physical, +1D energy.
If you want to let Jedi absorb kinetic energy too you can just do that by fiat or create another force power. If you start relying on real science then you might have to explain where exactly the energy comes from that allows tiny Yoda to lift a multi-ton X-wing (and without an equal reaction driving Yoda 100 meters down into the swamp) which likely ends up with no force powers at all.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | The force power simply parallels and is consistent with the distinction in the armor rules e.g. stormtrooper armor protects +2D physical, +1D energy. |
Actually, the way I run it is that it is actually harder for a Jedi to absorb kinetic energy (the inverse of physical armor).
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | No armour protection for Disruptors in my game. They do have short range however (even the rifle versions). |
I'm curious how you justify that. If a disruptor's primary effect is to break up the atomic structure of matter, an armor suit should still provide protection by absorbing a portion of the disruptive energy. |
I dont. Its SW tech. The disruptor beam disrupts anything in its way (as written somewhere) so armour doesnt mean anyting (or make it -5D armour if you want to have a stat for it).
Mostly the inention was to justify the 'bad name' disruptors have in the game, and make them worth their while (as by the RAW they arent).
How do you justify hyperdrives?
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | How do you justify hyperdrives? |
Antimatter collision generated quantum string hyper mainfolds that...nah it's just Star Wars tech.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Mostly the inention was to justify the 'bad name' disruptors have in the game, and make them worth their while (as by the RAW they arent). |
I would think the abnormally high damage would account for that. 6D+2 is certainly nothing to laugh at. I'm just saying that, if the premise behind the weapon is that it violently disrupts matter (Han Solo & The Corporate Sector page 118), and armor is composed of matter, then the disruptor blast would still have to burn through the armor to get to the person inside the armor. Even basing it just on SW tech, it shouldn't ignore one kind of matter to inflict full damage on the matter underneath the first layer.
| Quote: | | How do you justify hyperdrives? |
Easy. Alternate dimension that is coterminous with our own, but travel between points occurs much more rapidly. Hyperdrives allow a ship to transition back and forth between normal space and real space, and to move within hyperspace. Same brand of pseudo-science used to described how a disruptor works in the SWU.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm just saying that, if the premise behind the weapon is that it violently disrupts matter (Han Solo & The Corporate Sector page 118), and armor is composed of matter, then the disruptor blast would still have to burn through the armor to get to the person inside the armor. Even basing it just on SW tech, it shouldn't ignore one kind of matter to inflict full damage on the matter underneath the first layer. |
Perhaps it ignores the armor in a manner analagous to how a microwave heats (or burns) the food in the dish, but doesn't damage the dish. But at the end of the day that is just handwaving to get the effect Z wants.
The weapon was far more feared than a blaster in the Han Solo stories. The stats should reflect that. And I tend to agree with Z that they don't. With medpacs, bacta, accelerate healing, CPs, et al 6D+2 doesn't really do that for me. Especially when a vibro or simple melee weapon can easily do 7D damage in the right hands and there are blasters that come close, equal, or exceed 6D+2. Plus, IIR, disrupters in the sourcebook have a very limited range, almost as bad as a holdout blaster.
Personally I don't increase the damage or ignore armor. I make disrupters scarier by making it more difficult to recover/heal from disrupter damage even with medpacs, bacta, Jedi healing et al. |
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Make it like a major burn or something? 6d-ish damage with longer healing time (especially if it's painful) might just give it that extra somthing.
Me likey.
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Yasriia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Okay you got me with the KISS
My main concern with the disruptors are the stats: 4d+2 to 6d+2 damage, range 7, and ammo 5-10, availability 4,X and they cost some thousand credits.
Blasters do exist with far better stats. Like "thunderer", "annihilator", the dual shot of the "bi polar blaster carbine" and the repeating blasters. Every blaster excels in at least 2 stats if not in more.
So to make a disruptor desirable, they must have something special. The same is true for the sonic guns. The sonic pistol is comperable to a blaster pistol and sonic rifle to blaster rifle.
And in my opinion it is quite easy to multiply/divide a single digit number (most of the times the damage, after the soak, in my games ranges between 1 and 10) by 2.
You could use the longer healing times. But in my opinion a high energy particle beam doesnt sound that refreshing too. I think its easier to heal a good old slugthrower wound than a blaster shot. But here kicks KISS in |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Yasriia wrote: | Okay you got me with the KISS
My main concern with the disruptors are the stats: 4d+2 to 6d+2 damage, range 7, and ammo 5-10, availability 4,X and they cost some thousand credits.
Blasters do exist with far better stats. Like "thunderer", "annihilator", the dual shot of the "bi polar blaster carbine" and the repeating blasters. Every blaster excels in at least 2 stats if not in more.
So to make a disruptor desirable, they must have something special. The same is true for the sonic guns. The sonic pistol is comperable to a blaster pistol and sonic rifle to blaster rifle.
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This was exactly my point when I removed armour protections vs disruptors, even though some failed to see my point.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Yasriia wrote: | My main concern with the disruptors are the stats: 4d+2 to 6d+2 damage, range 7, and ammo 5-10, availability 4,X and they cost some thousand credits.
Blasters do exist with far better stats. Like "thunderer", "annihilator", the dual shot of the "bi polar blaster carbine" and the repeating blasters. Every blaster excels in at least 2 stats if not in more.
So to make a disruptor desirable, they must have something special. The same is true for the sonic guns. The sonic pistol is comperable to a blaster pistol and sonic rifle to blaster rifle. |
Based on the pictures, the Thunderer and the Annihilator all tend to be large and bulky, while the disruptor is relatively compact. IMO, a more realistic advantage would be that the hand-cannon type super heavy blaster pistols would receive a penalty to quickdraw due to their size and weight, while the disruptors could inflict similarly heavy damage at close range while still remaining compact enough to be drawn and fired quickly.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Yasriia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, crmcneill then I will show you how "superior" blasters are:
Model: Tenloss DXR-6 Disruptor Rifle
Type: Disruptor rifle
Ammo: 15
Cost: 3,500
Availability: 4, X
Range: 0-3/5/7
Damage: 5D+2
vs.
Model: BlasTech A280 Blaster Rifle
Type: Blaster rifle
Ammo: 100
Cost: 1,400
Availability: 1, R
Range: 4-40/120/300
Damage: 5D+2
While both are labeled rifle I think that both are equally large, heavy and bulky. But the Blaster rifle beats the disruptor rifle in ammo, cost, availability and range, while both have a damagecode of 5d+2. So which one is better? Hm, well the disruptor has the background story of being extremely deadly, so... |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose I would ask you the source of the stats on the DXR-6, because those are ridiculously low. IIRC, the DXR-6 was the sniper weapon used in Jedi Outcast. It could hit at extreme ranges and could charge up its shots to the level of completely disintegrating a character-scale target. Whoever wrote up these stats clearly had no idea what he was writing them up for.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I suppose I would ask you the source of the stats on the DXR-6... |
Look at page 59 of Gry Sarths Weapons book. There are five disruptors listed. All the stats are inferior to some blaster weapon. All are inferior to the majority of blasters in cost, range, and ammo. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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On page 59 of Gry Sarths Weapons book there are five disrupter's listed. There are five disruptors listed. Three of them: Merr-Sonn MSD-32 Disruptor Pistol, MSD-36 Disruptor Pistol, and Standard Distruptor Pistol list the weapon type as "Anti-personnel weapon."
One could infer this means that the weapon works best against unarmored targets or alternately that it somehow ignores armor to target the living targets inside. In which case it would be ineffective or less effective against droids or equipment. I'm not really proposing anything here as I am happy with my own house rule that disruptors damage is more difficult to heal, but I thought I would point it out for those wanting to support their own preference. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | I suppose I would ask you the source of the stats on the DXR-6... |
Look at page 59 of Gry Sarths Weapons book. There are five disruptors listed. All the stats are inferior to some blaster weapon. All are inferior to the majority of blasters in cost, range, and ammo. |
Well, with regards to the DXR-6, I would certainly dispute the accuracy o the stats. Having played the game where they were first introduced, I can assure you that the maximum range is far greater than 7 meters. 5D+2 may be relatively impressive, but the stats as shown do not reflect the DXR-6's ability to charge a shot to the point where it can completely disintegrate a human target.
One really annoying thing I remember from Jedi Outcast was that you couldn't parry disruptor blasts with a lightsaber. That being said, a rule more in keeping with the original intent of the weapon would be that it bypasses energy shielding, not physical armor, which would make a disruptor a very potent anti-Jedi weapon. Since no one really understands exactly how energy shields work, it would be much more difficult to argue the point than it is to dispute an energy weapon that disintegrates matter affecting one kind of matter and completely ignoring another.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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