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"Broken" Skills
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slaughterj
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:

Rambling aside, my point was based on the skill itself. It doesn't seam to be any easier to parry with a lightsaber than it does with a melee weapon so based on that point it should be two skills. However if you want a freeflowing cinematic game then perhaps all the parry skills should be dropped.


Perhaps, and I'm leaning that way based on comments above, but then you still have dodge but no parry - so ranged combat skill is only good for off, dodge for def, but the melee skills are good for both, just wondering if that's a problem...
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slaughterj
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhanu wrote:
Lightsabers can have "mad damage", if the Jedi wielding it is powerful enough and chooses to make it happen... but then, the Jedi could possibly do very similar damage without using the lightsaber anyway (though most of those methods involve DSPs). In the hands of a non-Jedi, or a Jedi that is suppressing or not augmenting its damage, it's not that impressive... just difficult and dangerous to wield.


And lightsabers also get the ability to block ranged attacks, yet another benefit!

Let's compare lightsabers versus brawling/melee:

Lightsabers are harder to find and use, but get:
1. only one skill for offense and defense
2. more damage
3. can block ranged attacks

Sounds like things favor the lightsaber pretty well to me, possibly too much.
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Krapou
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Lightsabers are harder to find and use, but get:
1. only one skill for offense and defense
2. more damage
3. can block ranged attacks

You do more damage and you can block ranged attacks only with the LS combat 'on' (but true, you only need one skill for both offense and defense)

The Force power LS combat is powerful, not the lightsaber itself...
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye, most of the lightsaber's power comes from a Force Power, not the item itself; enhanced damage and blocking ranged attacks aren't features of the item.

That said, the damage they do to objects when used to parry is a nice bonus (and one that I think doesn't come into play as often as it logically should... I know we rarely thought about it when playing)
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Nico_Davout
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was always curious why the Vehicle Blaster skill is under Dexterity (and Blaster Artillery). Weapons which falls under this category have fire control, so they use some computer to help character with targeting. It should fall under Mechanical. Even more, vehicle and starship weapons should be under one skill. What is the difference in shooting from Blaster cannon mounted on AT-AT against Starship which have same Blaster cannon (different scale) on Starship. At the same time Starship would be shooting on AT-AT with different skill.
Someone could point that the scale is different, yes, but character can shoot with the Blaster skill from the very small Hold-out Blaster Pistol and from big E-Web.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: "Broken" Skills Reply with quote

Liam (Gunman) Kissane wrote:

1. Brawling Parry and Melee Parry - aren't they covered by Brawling and Melee Combat ??
2. Dodge - how can you specialise against dodging blasters verses anything else ??
3. Vehicle Blasters - shouldn't this be a Mechanical skill ??
4. Vehicle Blasters, Starship Gunnery and Capital Ship Gunnery - how could you possibly specialise in being better at shooting an Ion Cannon verses shooting a Laser Cannon from a computer ?? (For those who might say it reflects knowing where to shoot to cause specific damage to an opponent's vehicle, wouldn't that be knowledge gleaned from the appropriate Technical skills ??).

1. I have removed the 'parry' skills and just have Melee Combat and Brawling. If nothing else so for the sake of simplicity.
2. No Dodge specializations in my game!
3. Yes, they are in our games. The only 'vehicle weapons' that are used under Dex in our games is swivel mounted weapons, which are governed by the Blaster skill.
4. We cant possible know what it takes to shoot these weapons, so I cant find any support for this case. One have to remember that the skill system in most RPGs are very abstract, and in D6 particularly so. If I have 10D in blaster pistol specialization, how can I have 4D in heavy blaster or sporting blaster skill?
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hazardchris
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the parry skills merged into their offensive counterparts for years. While from a real-world point-of-view it makes sense to have them seperated, from a Star Wars POV it makes a lot more sense to have the combined in my way of thinking.

I played with Cortex for a while and after playing that I even allow Dodge to be able to avoid melee attacks. It just never made sense to me that someone without any weapons would have to "parry" a vibroblade with their bare hands. I toss in a penalty for using the skill in this fashion but it works out pretty well.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is probabily because you are assuming that parrying an attack is forcefully putting your hands in the way (or weapon) to make them miss, when in the description for those skills it even says "EVADING"..
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Lancil
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is probabily because you are assuming that parrying an attack is forcefully putting your hands in the way (or weapon) to make them miss, when in the description for those skills it even says "EVADING"..


parry as defined by dictionary.com

par⋅ry
–verb (used with object)
1. to ward off (a thrust, stroke, weapon, etc.), as in fencing; avert.
2. to turn aside; evade or dodge: to parry an embarrassing question.
–verb (used without object)
3. to parry a thrust, blow, etc.
–noun
4. an act or instance of parrying, as in fencing.
5. a defensive movement in fencing.

parry is a real word with a real definition. Definition 2. above is the only one that refers to dodging or evading and it is not relevant to the subject at hand.

by my interpretation of the word to parry you must have an object in your hand to block or deflect an attackers weapon. IMO if you successively parry a vibroblade unarmed, you actually become unarmed. Twisted Evil

you roll dodge to get out of the way of something. to not be hit by the vibroblade you dodge out of range in some way.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancil wrote:
by my interpretation of the word to parry you must have an object in your hand to block or deflect an attackers weapon. IMO if you successively parry a vibroblade unarmed, you actually become unarmed. Twisted Evil


It is possible to block a weapon unarmed without getting injured, it represents using your hand/arm/tentacle against the hand/appendage holding the weapon to divert the strike without touching the weapon.

That's why it gets an increased difficulty.

At least that's my understanding.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancil wrote:
Quote:
That is probabily because you are assuming that parrying an attack is forcefully putting your hands in the way (or weapon) to make them miss, when in the description for those skills it even says "EVADING"..


parry as defined by dictionary.com

par⋅ry
–verb (used with object)
1. to ward off (a thrust, stroke, weapon, etc.), as in fencing; avert.
2. to turn aside; evade or dodge: to parry an embarrassing question.
–verb (used without object)
3. to parry a thrust, blow, etc.
–noun
4. an act or instance of parrying, as in fencing.
5. a defensive movement in fencing.

parry is a real word with a real definition. Definition 2. above is the only one that refers to dodging or evading and it is not relevant to the subject at hand.

by my interpretation of the word to parry you must have an object in your hand to block or deflect an attackers weapon. IMO if you successively parry a vibroblade unarmed, you actually become unarmed. Twisted Evil

you roll dodge to get out of the way of something. to not be hit by the vibroblade you dodge out of range in some way.


I think its more constructive to actually read THE RULES than a third party dictionary when discussing game mechanics.... Rolling Eyes
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, dictionaries are not the place for rules discussions.

Case in point:

Dexterity

n.

1. Skill and grace in physical movement, especially in the use of the hands; adroitness.
2. Mental skill or adroitness; cleverness.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said J.
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bobenhotep
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

star wars d6 is the only game i played where there was a separate parry skill. everything else uses the combat skill at hand for defense.

i thought of having a separate parry skill, but allowing it to do extra effects. so a character can use say, melee combat to block incoming attacks . but if he uses melee parry, he can block or parry in such a way that he can set up for the next attack, kinda like form 5 is described. the same with brawling parry, where if a character with brawling blocks by covering up, the brawling parry sets up the counter attack, like a martial arts type thing. id also allow a lower penalty for brawling parry vs weapons than brawling.

the vehicle blasters thing... id have it be a vehicle gunnery skill where it would be a mechanical skill, used not only for blasters, but to shoot missles, lasers, ion cannons, much like the other gunnery skills.
to fire a weapon you are not physically touching/ moving, like an at-at chin gun, speeder bike blaster , youd use this skill. so it would be the speeder/ walker scale equivalent of starship gunnery or capital ship gunnery.

pintle guns would use the appropriate skill, like blaster or missle weapons.

blaster artillery would fall under whatever gunnery skill was scale appropriate.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
star wars d6 is the only game i played where there was a separate parry skill. everything else uses the combat skill at hand for defense.


All the white wolf games use a dodge skill for avoiding attacks.
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