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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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atgxtg wrote: | I don't think the defender should hHAVE to do a full dodge. I think the reason why the characters do so is becuase a missle hit on a starfighter is pretty much an autokill and a full dodgeit is far more likely to succeed than a reaction dodge. |
Depends on what ship the target is in. Even an X wing has 4d hull 1d shields, that gives 5d versus 8d damage.. 10.5 over on averages. not a full on kill by any shot. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | atgxtg wrote: | I don't think the defender should hHAVE to do a full dodge. I think the reason why the characters do so is becuase a missle hit on a starfighter is pretty much an autokill and a full dodgeit is far more likely to succeed than a reaction dodge. |
Depends on what ship the target is in. Even an X wing has 4d hull 1d shields, that gives 5d versus 8d damage.. 10.5 over on averages. not a full on kill by any shot. |
The X-Wing is a fairly tougher starfighter, and even so,the shields don't apply against misses, so it's more 8D vs 4D. While that might not be an autokill, it will probably be severe enough to take the fighter out of the battle. |
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Esoomian High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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That means an 8D missile averages out to doing 14 damage to an X-wing it hits.
That makes it severely damaged and it has only a one in six chance of still being able to fight (unless you've got a suicidal pilot willing to keep fighting with an overloading ship, a disintergrating ship or ram with his weapons offline).
Severely damaged ships have taken major amounts of damage and are rendered almost useless. A severely damaged ship which is lightly damaged, heavily damaged or severely damaged again is destroyed. Roll ID to determine which system is affected:
1. Dead in space. All drives and maneuvering systems are destroyed. The vehicle is adrift in space.
2. Overloaded generator. The ship's generator is overloading; unless it's shut down, the generator will explode in ID rounds and destroy the ship.
3. Disabled hyperdrives. The ship's hyperdrives — main and backup — are damaged. The ship cannot enter hyperspace until they are fixed with a Moderate repair roll and one hour of work.
4. Disabled weapons. All weapons systems lose power. Roll 1D:
1-4: Weapons are severely damaged but may be repaired.
5-6: All weapons aboard the ship are destroyed.
5. Structural damage. The ship is so badly damaged that it begins to disintegrate. The crew has ID rounds to evacuate.
6. Destroyed. This ship disintegrates or explodes in a ball of flame _________________ Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.
Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view. |
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shootingwomprats Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Sep 2013 Posts: 2943 Location: Online
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Might I suggest that is what missiles are supposed to do? I always thought missiles were not powerful enough in the game. Even in today's aerial combat a missile is a VERY serious thing. If you get hit by one, your going to be lucky to escape from it and your plane is going to more than likely be destroyed. I don't mind at all if a single missile could knock out an X-Wing. Sounds about right to me. That the pilot survives let alone the ship able to limp back to base for repairs is a testament to the incredible durability of the ship. _________________ Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
@swd6podcast, Twitter |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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They should be nasty.. but as was posted up in the thread by the rules shooting a ship with them is harder than using any other weapons (bar torps) cause of that damn movement penalty... _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Of course if we added in dogfighting missiles, we could get around that penalty. Such missiles could act more like modern missiles.
They would probably be fairly expensive though, which is why we don't see that much of them in Star Wars. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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So what do the normal ones become? Obsolete? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | So what do the normal ones become? Obsolete? |
No, just the standard missiles.
One reason why the dogfighting ones could be rare is that they would be more expensive, since they would need to be faster, more maneuverable, have better endurance, and be smart enough to acquire and chase a target. All that for a one shot weapon.
Probably not worth the extra cost when laser cannons can give instant results, are reusable,, fire multiple times (per round, no less), have a better range, can link multiple weapons to one fire control, have a better firing arc, have nearly unlimited ammo, can't be decoyed, and are more cost effective. In most cases, by the time the missile destroys the target, lasers probably would have already done so. |
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Esoomian High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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shootingwomprats wrote: | Might I suggest that is what missiles are supposed to do? |
Yes that what I was trying to say. I was rebutting garhkal's earlier point that the missiles don't do enough damage to X-Wings.
In my mind the fact that missiles just ignore shields counters the fact that they're harder to hit with. Especially considering that if you use RAW capital ships appy their scale bonus to both their shields and their hull rating so starfighters would be hard pressed to damage them with lasers. _________________ Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.
Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:48 am Post subject: |
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atgxtg wrote: | garhkal wrote: | So what do the normal ones become? Obsolete? |
No, just the standard missiles.
One reason why the dogfighting ones could be rare is that they would be more expensive, since they would need to be faster, more maneuverable, have better endurance, and be smart enough to acquire and chase a target. All that for a one shot weapon.
Probably not worth the extra cost when laser cannons can give instant results, are reusable,, fire multiple times (per round, no less), have a better range, can link multiple weapons to one fire control, have a better firing arc, have nearly unlimited ammo, can't be decoyed, and are more cost effective. In most cases, by the time the missile destroys the target, lasers probably would have already done so. |
But at 800 a pop per missile or 900 per torp as is, they are unusable with that 'speed' rule in any form of combat other than against stationary targets.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Kytross Line Captain


Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 808
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget that to fire projectiles, like missiles and torps, you need to drop your ray shields for the round, so say good-bye to 2D of your hull code that round.
Smart missiles are amazing. Dumb missiles are not so amazing, but they are still a one-hit kill.
There's a reason they use them against cap ships and death stars. And a reason TIEs and Interceptors don't carry them.
There are a few situations to use them in fighter to fighter combat. |
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vanir Jedi

Joined: 11 May 2011 Posts: 793
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Missiles are totally usable for tactical PC pilots. Keep in mind the speed penalty is relative speed, so you get on his tail and match his speed, he manoeuvres and you manoeuvre and you get a missile shot on him at low speed penalties when you gain the initiative and a firing solution.
By default missiles move at 15 units/rnd and track by a seeker head, the fire control isn't ship based. So you can still use the genuine rules for avoiding them like hitting the throttle and turning into it to cause the missile to expend energy chasing you.
It's a matter of taking RAW and conflagurating it. You can use regular combat flight sim mechanics as a reference.
Vietnam era Sidewinders and Sparrows only had something like a 1/5 success ratio, as fighters became so much more manouevrable and bestowed with instantaneous thrust energy seeker/launch improvements never really outpaced aircraft improvements until the era of the AIM-9M and AIM-7F, even then plenty of international contemporaries were a lot better. The AIM-120B/C are pretty good, but everything else that actually acts like they do in the movies is made somewhere else and only since the 1990s.
A 1D fire control is pretty average by those lines, a 3-4D is pretty alien. An R73 Archer might be like 4D but an AIM-9M 2D and any earlier Sidewinder 1D with poorer reliability the older you go. AIM-9B era used to chase the heat absorbed by random clouds even if you had a smoking tailpipe right in front of you. |
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Tupteq Commander


Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 285 Location: RzeszĂłw, Poland
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Kytross wrote: | Don't forget that to fire projectiles, like missiles and torps, you need to drop your ray shields for the round, so say good-bye to 2D of your hull code that round. |
I don't think you need to do this for the full round. In my games I'd only take this factor (lowered particle shields) into account only if a ship got hit on the same initiative as it's releasing missiles. |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:39 am Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: |
But at 800 a pop per missile or 900 per torp as is, they are unusable with that 'speed' rule in any form of combat other than against stationary targets.. |
I wouldn't say they are unusable. It depends a lot of what they are shooting at and relative skill levels. A good PC gunner (say 6D) with a decent fire control (1D) stands a chance of hitting a freighter with low maneuverability and a typical pilot (4D).
But I do think that stationary targets are what the missile are best for. And with the way failed maneuver rolls work, and ion gun damage, stationary targets aren't that hard to come by.
Frankly, I think the reason for the speed penalty was that in the original trilogy, missiles weren't used in starfighter battles, so the RPG added that penalty to explain why. It also matches with the WWII analog, with laser cannons as machine guns/light cannon, and missiles as bombs.
Then the prequels came out and had missiles that worked like modern missiles, causing another contradiction between the PT and the RPG.
Trying to rationalize it all it looks like they have the technology for "dogfight missiles" but for some reason don't use them much during the rebellion era. Probably because the rebels can't afford to spend that much on disposable missiles and the Empire doesn't want to issue them in large quantities, since they have a whole Galaxy to subjugate. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Red squadron used missiles several times in the dogfight over endor. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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