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atgxtg
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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[quote="vanir"]Then you have the issue of interpretation, are you interpreting the text correctly? I've read turbolaser descriptions before whereby individual shots are described as low powered compared to starfighter laser cannon, but this is how turbolasers work, they fire many more shots using a bank of capacitors for stored energy so the total amount of damage laid onto the target in any concentrated attack, is in fact much higher.
That they are rapid fire weapons is a given. The total energy of a bust would be much higher than a single shoot from a laser. But it is definitely more like a machinegun or light autocannon than a big gun. I think Lucas wanted TBLs to be Ack-Ack not 16" cannon.
As far as the four big guns go, we never see them fired in the films. We see lots of lighter stuff.
One of the nice things D20 did was group the TBLs into "batteries"of 5 that fired combined. That gave the ISD 12 tubolaser batteries. It's not a bad idea to swipe. Maybe give them a +1 bonus, for the batteries to get it up to a round +2D.
I wish somebody back in the late 70s got LUcas to explain what he was going after so we could have locked it down better for the RPG.
[quote]
And there are capital scale heavy laser cannon on ships like the Eclipse, which do really massive damage [/quotew]
You can't use EU stuff to explain how things work in SW, because the none of it was around when Lucas was making the trilogy, or used by Lucas for the second trilogy. Okay, he incorporated a few characters and some names, but stuff like Dark Empire is going to go the way of Han Solo paying off Jabba the Hutt in issue 7 of Marvel Star Wars comic, if Lucas ever decided to continue the timeline beyond ROTJ.
| Quote: | | ...the massive twin barrelled turrets on the sides of the superstructure are unlisted heavy capital class laser cannon that do massive unlisted damage? |
That would make more sense. But I don:t think the large weapons are mentioned anywhere. At least we don't se any big gun type of effects in the films.
Regarding 50 cals, 20mm, etc. some cannon did have a high ROF, and there were exploding shells too, so ythey didn't need a direct hit to damage aircraft. But I think the effect that Lucas was going for in the films is for anti-aircraft guns-not big ship guns. SO the TBLS probably should be in starfighter scale. That would make a lot more sense with with we see on screen. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But looking in the PDF for the ATAT there is no blast radius given for their weapons. |
Which is yet another example of how the RAW is not an accurate representation of the films. Aside from the AT-AT scene I referenced above, the most extreme example found in the films is the Death Star; its stats don't list a blast radius either, but anyone who happened to be standing on Alderaan didn't have to take a direct hit from the superlaser to get killed by it. Bottom line, there should be some sort of rule for blast radius effects for higher-scale weaponry, simply because of the extreme volume of energy delivered. What form that takes is up to you.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: |
I remember that. IIRC, the AT-AT's main laser cannon are the same cannon mounted on an X-Wing. |
I believe it. According to the cross sections book, all the ship lasers and blasters, fighter and capital scale are at approximatly the same power level. Turbolasers are the least powerful of the weapons. and are significantly less powerful than the lasers on the fighters. So it appears that they are more like machineguns or light autocannons than big guns.
That would probably completely revise the scaling system. |
When I split Capital Ship into three categories, I just made it so that the flank turrets on the ISD are the ship's "big guns" (i.e. Cruiser-Scale), with the smaller turbolasers firing through ports in the ship's hull (ala the cannon used aboard the Death Star). That way, the ship can have both the turret weapons and the 60 turbolasers listed in the stats, along with the point defense laser cannon that are ascribed to it in the D20 stats. this weapons loadout makes it more analogous to WWII era battleships, which had the big 15-16" guns, smaller dual-purpose cannon, and lots of light anti-aircraft weapons.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | But looking in the PDF for the ATAT there is no blast radius given for their weapons. |
Which is yet another example of how the RAW is not an accurate representation of the films. Aside from the AT-AT scene I referenced above, the most extreme example found in the films is the Death Star; its stats don't list a blast radius either, but anyone who happened to be standing on Alderaan didn't have to take a direct hit from the superlaser to get killed by it. Bottom line, there should be some sort of rule for blast radius effects for higher-scale weaponry, simply because of the extreme volume of energy delivered. What form that takes is up to you. |
Well the Death Star is a special case. It's not necessarily the blast that kills people but the destruction of the planet that they happen to be standing on.
Butyour general point is valid. Most of the lasers do seem to have a blast.explosive effect. (Hence the term blaster). We could add an exploive rule for such weapons. I'd favor some sort of method that could be applied to all explosive weapons rather than an ad hoc approach. Either a burst radius/half damage radius like in OpenD6, or a drop 1D or 2D per doubling of distance method. Just as long as it was consistent.
FRrankly, I think if we looked closely at the numbers given by Lucasfilm, we could probably elimiate most of the scaling rules. We could probably tweak a few codes and use multipliers. Maybe walkers and starfighters could use Hull Code x2 (i.e. 5Dx2) instead of handfuls of dice. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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The post-SW WEG D6 rules did something similar, by including a scale modifier into the stats: little more than a number added to rolls to represent differences in size. Personally, I like the idea of a scale system; I just don't like WEG's version.
The scaling system could be used as a way to generate a blast radius for higher scale weapons, as well (i.e. if you are standing x meters from the impact point, you take Speeder-scale damage instead of Walker, and so on).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | | And in some LucasArts/LFL publications the four gigantic, twin barrelled turrets on each side of the bridge superstructure on the SD film model somehow becomes 60 turbolaser emplacements... |
Actually never thought about it... You mean these?
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fudged in later publication by listing both, so now they have partial big gun turrets and 60 turbolaser emplacements. |
Never seen stats for those big guns. Are they D20 only? If so, what would the D6 version be like?
Regarding fast firing cannons. What are those cannons firing from the 'creek' of the Death Star. Mounted on rather large turrets they dont seem to be firing very fast..
Edit: Found a pic on d6 holocron where the big guns are described as turbolasers.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Funny thing. Someone actually shot the model and highlighterd weapons..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-dJWOteosc
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Regarding fast firing cannons. What are those cannons firing from the 'creek' of the Death Star. Mounted on rather large turrets they dont seem to be firing very fast.. |
Well, Wookie points them out as turbolasers, and they dont fire that fast in the movie.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Turbolaser
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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INteresting ZzaphodD.
Wookiee also lists the armament of an ISD-I as:
Dual heavy turbolaser turrets (6)
Dual heavy ion cannon turrets (2)]
Quad heavy turbolasers (2)
Triple medium turbolasers (3)
Medium turbolasers (2)
Taim & Bak XX-9 heavy turbolasers (60)
Borstel NK-7 ion cannons (60)[1]
Phylon Q7 tractor beam projectors (10)
So it looks like ISDs do have some bigger guns (TBL Cannon) and the XX-9s are the smaller, but less effective guns. Only problem is the XX-9 on the ISD fire much faster than the ones on the Death Star. Maybe the ones ofn the DS were set for a higher power, lower ROF mode rather than an anti-fighter mode. |
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Darth_Hilarious
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Joined: 17 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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That goes along with the original scenes in A New Hope that the empire doesn't consider snub fighters as a threat to the death star.
If the Empire feared snubs then the DS would have had a chitload more anti starfighter scale weapons. |
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