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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 481
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 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand a person with a certain personality or background being on regular guard at a lot of the time; but the reality is that even the most paranoid people have something that they feel safe in to "relax". (For most paranoid people it's their triped out pad complete with warning signs and escape plans...they feel safe because they know they get a heads up and a way out.)
But no one should be on force guard for long periods unless they meet one of the following conditions:
1. They are a force user / ex-force (or similar) that is extremely aware of the abilities available to force users. (After all - the possibilities can be scary.)
2. The character knows they are near / around force users; they know the enviroment has them - the bad guy's one, ect.
3. The GM constantly uses force powers against the players; it's no longer player info - the character's life is wrought with the complications caused by force use.
There may be more, but these look like the "big three" to me.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Endwyn wrote: | There's a big difference between being on guard for a fight to break out or someone to knife you in your back than being on mental guard to protect yourself against the force. I'm sorry, but if your PC's are on "force guard" at all times then the GM is throwing way to many force users at the group way to regularly!
(Not you Trusty, that game is a completely different setting / story.) |
Or allowing you to get away with it. IMO there is no way a person can be on guard all the time, it would ware them out very quickly.
| Quote: | | Maybe we need to clarify. I wasn't saying they were on "Force guard" per se, just that characters who are in professions where they're constantly looking over their shoulder because they could get nabbed at any second would be more likely to be on guard, period. Someone with a high Willpower isn't going to just be bowled over by some blustering brute, nor is he necessarily going to be smooth-talked by someone trying to pull the wool over his eyes. He's going to be suspicious of just about everything; for him it's become a way of life, the natural way to be. Now for Joe Schmuckerson who, even though he's a Rebel he's pretty much open-faced with everyone he deals with, he's gonna be easy to probe, mess with, or in some other way subvert his natural inclinations with someone who has more charisma, or the Force, or whatever. Not by a long shot do I think that everyone should ALWAYS have that Willpower bonus... but I do think there are cases to be argued for certain individuals to be ALWAYS harder to probe or intimidate. |
Skyler, have you ever been in the military? IMO being on heightened alert would be like the 'willpower keep up guard'. And being in the military i know that after a while, it is hard to stay so alert....
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Endwyn wrote: | There's a big difference between being on guard for a fight to break out or someone to knife you in your back than being on mental guard to protect yourself against the force. I'm sorry, but if your PC's are on "force guard" at all times then the GM is throwing way to many force users at the group way to regularly!
(Not you Trusty, that game is a completely different setting / story.) |
Or allowing you to get away with it. IMO there is no way a person can be on guard all the time, it would ware them out very quickly.
| Quote: | | Maybe we need to clarify. I wasn't saying they were on "Force guard" per se, just that characters who are in professions where they're constantly looking over their shoulder because they could get nabbed at any second would be more likely to be on guard, period. Someone with a high Willpower isn't going to just be bowled over by some blustering brute, nor is he necessarily going to be smooth-talked by someone trying to pull the wool over his eyes. He's going to be suspicious of just about everything; for him it's become a way of life, the natural way to be. Now for Joe Schmuckerson who, even though he's a Rebel he's pretty much open-faced with everyone he deals with, he's gonna be easy to probe, mess with, or in some other way subvert his natural inclinations with someone who has more charisma, or the Force, or whatever. Not by a long shot do I think that everyone should ALWAYS have that Willpower bonus... but I do think there are cases to be argued for certain individuals to be ALWAYS harder to probe or intimidate. |
Skyler, have you ever been in the military? IMO being on heightened alert would be like the 'willpower keep up guard'. And being in the military i know that after a while, it is hard to stay so alert.... |
Yes, I am a veteran. And yes, it can be very tiring to stay on constant alert. While it seems I'm advocating the concept of someone being "on guard" all the time, that's not really what I'm saying. The spirit of what I'm trying to get across is that there are people who are, by nature, more suspicious than others. Their natural inclination is to be distrustful, to take everything they hear with three or four grains of salt, and to mull things over before deciding whether or not to believe them. Such people, IMO have built up a tolerance to this kind of behavior, and therefore would have built up what might equate to a racial resistance to at least certain Force powers and to Intimidation, Con and the like. Also, people who act this way would fall into one of two categories; those who were raised to be suspicious, having been so from a very early age, and those who learned later in life to be suspicious of others. Both categories of individuals would have built up a certain level of tolerance to operating in this mindset, but those who were basically born to it would IMO have a harder time operating OUTSIDE that mindset. It wouldn't tax them to be that way at all; it's all they know. Those who've learned to be so would have to have spent considerable time and energy building up such a resistance, and would therefore IMO be more susceptible than those in the first category, but less so than your average being.
In my military experience, there always seemed to be at least a few individuals who had no problems being on constant alert; rather, these people thrived on it. It's when they came alive, were at their peak. Admittedly not all of us were that way, and a lot of us had to work hard to maintain that level of alertness. But I found it to be something that came a bit easier the longer I did it, thus the reasoning behind my opinion. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Ah... Thanks for the clarification...
Just as a side question. What in game penalties (if any) would you assign for those who are | Quote: | Both categories of individuals would have built up a certain level of tolerance to operating in this mindset, but those who were basically born to it would IMO have a harder time operating OUTSIDE that mindset. It wouldn't tax them to be that way at all; it's all they know. Those who've learned to be so would have to have spent considerable time and energy building up such a resistance, and would therefore IMO be more susceptible than those in the first category, but less so than your average being.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Well. on someone's prompting, i took a nice long look through the books with force powers in. The only 3 i could find that DO allow willpower to resist are all dark side powers. Inflict pain, Aura of Uneasiness and Darkside Web
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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:18 am Post subject: |
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There are a lot of them that don't - take TK for example.
As for the on-guard fest situation. My point was not that against some people having a personality that makes them more prone to being on guard; just that there is a big difference in the types of on guard.
For example - a person who was in a situation like a foriegn war would be looking for a physical fight, eye out for things like people sneaking up on them; perhaps even always looking for a way out or good cover if they needed. The security against physical harm is warped because of their situation; wake up everyday in hostile territory, it's hard to "flip a switch to normal".
Now a con artist is always looking for the con, the trick, gimmic, or the hustle.
My point is that the war vet is not "on-guard" for cons and such; just like the con artist isn't on guard for physical harm the way the war vet is.
Now; being "on guard" against the force is a completely different type of guard than cons or bullets; it's the force. It'd be like walking around all day with a crussifix and holy water looking for demons....it's not something someone who didn't see a hell of a lot of demons would do. Most people are not attacked, influenced, or affected by active force use; even fewer hve repeat incursions with this type of activity. Now, PC's are different; but that doesn't mean they automaticly are on guard. I can understand the PC who has been assualted by a DS user over and over again being on guard a lot of the time. My point is that even he would at some point let the guard down; and that it should take several experiences with the force before someone would even begin to "be on guard".
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My point is that the war vet is not "on-guard" for cons and such; just like the con artist isn't on guard for physical harm the way the war vet is. |
I don't know... a wise con artist ought to be on guard for the eventuality that he's caught with his pants down; otherwise he's really gonna get a beating!  |
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Endwyn
Commander
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I agree sortof. A con is usually on on guard for physical harm when they know they're in "hostile territory", a deal is going bad, or another warning sign comes up. If they "were on guard" from harm during the con, they'd screw up the con.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| That is possible. That's why, IMO, it's something that's learned over time, with considerable adeptness in the given skill. If the con artist survived long enough, over time they'd get the ability to sense when the con was going bad, which would automatically kick in their "danger sense," if you will. |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | I don't know that I would necessarily agree with there being a need for the individual to have been "tipped off", as it were, in order for them to use Willpower. Watto certainly wasn't thinking that Qui-Gon was really a Jedi when he said that, and yet the mind power didn't work on him. Some individuals just inherently have a stronger will than others. I think the exceptions to Willpower being used (at full strength, anyway) would be a situation where an individual's will has been battered, which results in a penalty. Also, if a person is wounded or stunned, it stands to reason that their Willpower would suffer as well. (but then all skills take a hit, so that's just a given.) IMO Willpower should always be at full strength unless there are mitigating circumstances, because a high Willpower signifies that a character has spent time and effort to build their mental discipline. It therefore ought to require a distraction or some other outside influence to cause that discipline to waver. |
The Jedi power to affect the mind would qualify as a mental "attack", and so would, under my previous explanation, get the willpower resistance whether the target was tipped off or not.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Resurrection time.
For our new folks. How do you handle the willpower skill and force powers? Do you have a set list of what powers Willpower can be used against? or do you just wing it?
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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If a Force power affects a living being in a way said being would object to, consciously or not, I always let the target roll Willpower (as a free non-action).
I treat the power's difficulty and the target's Willpower roll total the same as a weapon's difficulty and target's defense roll total in melee combat: you have to beat both simultainously and independently (so, in effect, simply beat the higher one) for the power/attack to take effect. For multi-skill powers, Alter is the one to compare to Willpower.
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Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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For me, the dividing lines are as follows:
Character is target of a mental effect and knows it: Knowledge/Willpower
Character is target of mental effect and doesn't know it:Perception/Search
Character is being physically manipulated: Strength
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 508
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| While the Jedi mind trick doesn't work on some species, Jabba, watto, no willpower roll necessary. I high willpower might actually help telepathy from a Jedi character that they are close to, luke, Leia. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | While the Jedi mind trick doesn't work on some species, Jabba, watto, no willpower roll necessary. I high willpower might actually help telepathy from a Jedi character that they are close to, luke, Leia. |
IIRC, Jabba had a +4D bonus vs. the Force, so he would've added that bonus to Willpower to resist, rather than just not rolling.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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