| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Zarm R'keeg
Commander
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 481
Location: PA
|
 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Were those stormies combining fire? Also what is that Talz's str+armor? |
I must ashamedy admit... I almost never use combining for PCs or NPCs, because I'm pretty sure, to quote It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World, "No matter how many ways we figured it... somebody didn't like the way we figured it!" So we just avoid the headache. In this particular case, though, it was one of the rare instances of using combined fire for the troopers.
The Talz had NO armor, and a Strength of 5D.
| Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Were those stormies combining fire? |
And don't forget to have them aim for the head! |
Tried that, and all that resulted was the fatal decapitation of the 98-pound weakling of the group who already had 2 artificial limbs and the near-death of the NPC- no harm to the Talz. 
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com
Hard core OT, all the way! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Crimson_red
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 113
Location: British Columbia, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lol, I'll admit I had forgot that 0 meant only ties. That clarification helps a lot; it doesn't take too many 'stunned' before the average PC is taking a 2D minute nap.
| Zarm R'keeg wrote: |
I must ashamedy admit... I almost never use combining for PCs or NPCs, because I'm pretty sure, to quote It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World, "No matter how many ways we figured it... somebody didn't like the way we figured it!" So we just avoid the headache. |
I found the combined action overly complicated too.
In the case of NPCs I typically ignore the command roll and just combine the actions. The leader's Command score determines the number of people whom he can combined, and everyone involved takes their action(s) at the same time as him (the leader does suffer MAPs as if he made the command roll, but it is never actually taken). The character with the best score gets the bonus.
Not only does it simplifies the combined action process, I found it sped up combat as I could effectively treat small groups as a single, but more effective, character in regards to actions taken. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zarm R'keeg
Commander
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 481
Location: PA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting. So, the highest roller is the primary, with a bonus (based on the table in the rules) for how many people are adding their rolls?
And for combined blaster- I understood that, since the combiners are essentially blanketing the area to 'pin down' the dodging character, if it succeeds, only one shot hits? I was never sure of this...
I think my combining difficulties began in the Isis Coordinates when two characters were working to lift heavy supply crates, and one objected "So, if we're two-person buddy-carrying this crate, my entire strength only adds 1D to his?" From there, every attempt we made to pin it down just got more confusing. 
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com
Hard core OT, all the way! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Crimson_red
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 113
Location: British Columbia, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | Interesting. So, the highest roller is the primary, with a bonus (based on the table in the rules) for how many people are adding their rolls? |
I don't recall a table... I've only read the combining rules in 2R&E., but essentially the leader just uses his command to determine the number of participants and he may or may not be participating himself, the roller will have the greatest relevant skill to begin with, and you add +1D for every 3 participants combining their skill (+1/+2 for for an 'extra' one/two participants) , and it is all treated as a single roll.
Hope that helps instead of makes things more convoluted.
| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | And for combined blaster- I understood that, since the combiners are essentially blanketing the area to 'pin down' the dodging character, if it succeeds, only one shot hits? I was never sure of this... |
Yeah, mechanically treat it as a single hit. In the case of an attack, like combined blaster, you can add the bonus to the attack or damage as needed (or split between them). So you can increase your chances of hitting the slippery targets or actually damage the tough ones.
Note, I am ignoring the needed command roll for expediency. I also don't know if there is a minimum number of participants needed for a combined roll or if their is a minimum bonus.... I think I'd give a group of two participants a minimum of +1D, the same as a group of 3... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What he said.
Commander decides to combine his squad to attack target X.
Init is rolled, pcs roll theirs..
Commander then makes a [i]Command[i/] roll against a variable difficulty based on # of troops being combined and their relative skill level.
IF he succeeds, he adds a # of dice to the to hit and damage pool of the BEST shooter in the group who was combined.
IF the shot hits, the best shooter's weapon damage is used as the base with the damage bonus increasing it.
BUT remember when being combined like that, those who are linked up GET NO other actions but reactive dodges/parries. They can't even move!!!
PS our group (the sparks campaign) made a combined fire chart, listing the #, the Difficulty, the Skill D needed and the bonus added based on this. Anyone who wishes me to email them the Word doc with it in, PM me your email addy.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | "So, if we're two-person buddy-carrying this crate, my entire strength only adds 1D to his?" |
I simplify the combined actions by using powers of two. So a 5D STR is twice as strong as a 4D STR. So yeah, your entire strength may only add +1D to his. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yup.. To simplify how our chart does it..
# Coordinated / Bonus
2 / +1D
4 / +2D
6 / +3D
10 / +4D
15 / +5D
25 / +6D
40 / +7D
60 / +8D
100 / +9D
150 / +10D
AND SO ON...
you also have to look at those larger numbers as not being the person commands all 100+, but that they trickle down the orders. IE Base CO orders all troops to shoot that AT-AT.
All platoon commanders (5) order their platoons to open fire (3 squads per platoon), but since they also are shooting, take off 1d from their command skill.
All squad leaders order their troops to open fire (2 fire teams of 4 troops per squad, with the squad leader and a heavy weapons guy for his defense)but since they also are shooting, take off 1d from their command skill.
Finally the fire team leaders order their troops to shoot (3 troopers plus the fire team leader) but since they also are shooting, take off 1d from their command skill.
So at most the CO is ordering 5 people.. but the net effect is 150 troops shoot.
All troopers have 5d blaster, the fire team leaders 5d+1, the squad leaders 6d. So looking at the chart (using as example here!!), we see combining 4 people with an average of 5d skill is a moderate difficulty (which the fire team leaders all need to hit a diff of 11-15 on their paltry 3d+1 command now, since they are at -1d for taking MAPS.
The Squad leaders have it easier though with only 2 people at 5d+1 to command (very easy, 1-5 difficulty, which they can easily make on their remainig 3d+2 command skill after their MAP is taken out)..
The base commander has 3 squad leaders with 6d (easy difficulty, 6-10 difficulty, with 5d for his command roll, unless he rolls s***, its good to go)..
So the base CO is good to go, the squad leaders can't fail unless they roll all 1s on the dice.. the only iffy part would be the fire team leaders (who are havig to coordinate not just their 3 troops but themselves)..
BUT if they are successful in doing so, ONE trooper shooting (most likely a squad leader since he has 6d blaster) is shooting with
+6d to hit (scale difference) (NOTE. ONLY IF USING 2e R&E rules)....
+6d combined fire bonus...
And if they DO hit, they roll 5d damage (base blaster rifle) +6d damage.
Now depending on whether you use base 1e rules, base 2e rules or 2e Revised rules, there is some debate whether the bonus you get is used on BOTH the to hit and damage rolls, or is split (your choice)...
So if using the above example, the DM did use the Splitting rule, the imperials more than likely WILL opt to put it all onto damage, since scaling will more than likely mean they will hit...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grimace wrote: | Yes, by the rules, if the roll is tied, the character is stunned. If the roll is higher, the character takes no damage. This, of course, leads to the infamous problem of "blaster proof wookiees".
So many GMs are always trying to figure out how to explain away that little problem of saying, "You hit! Roll damage. *pause* Oh...  Okay, the blaster hits your bare skin and....does no damage."
I've gone to the method of saying that if the character gets hit, even if their resistance roll is above the damage roll, I still give out semi-superficial damage. I numb an appendage that is hit. I ruin clothes with burn marks and issue 1st and 2nd degree burns to the character, and I sometimes even up the difficulty number for their next action by 2 or 3 points, just so I don't have players the "...leap into the middle of the hallway and start blasting the stormtroopers, because they can't really hurt me since I have 6D Strength."
So you could keep doing what you're doing, simply to avoid those annoying problems, or you could hang your head and tell your players that they're right, you're wrong, and from now on they'll have blaster proof characters a lot of the time.  |
I have returned to the 1st ed rules. To walk away unstunned you need to beat the damage roll by double!
Also, if you get stunned, your next damage resistance roll (within 1 hour or medical attention) will suffer a -1 pip penalty.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I have returned to the 1st ed rules. To walk away unstunned you need to beat the damage roll by double! |
That's on my list of changes as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My house rule is that you can use as many Character Points as you want to increase your strength roll to resist damage BUT you can only drop the damage by one level. This means that a character who gets a dead result can drop things to mortally wounded, but no more then that.
It keeps the characters alive, but prevents them for shrugging off blaster fire.
In other news...
I also assume that every damage dice in a blaster shot, rolls a 5. This, saves time, makes the blasters more realistic, and (most importantly) makes the game reflect the movies better.
To compensate for this more dangerous damage system I let the PCs roll their FULL dodge skill even if doing multiple actions that turn.
_________________
- J.T. Swift
For Everything about the TARDIS check out
http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/
For all things Gallifreyan check out
http://meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JT Swift wrote: | | My house rule is that you can use as many Character Points as you want to increase your strength roll to resist damage BUT you can only drop the damage by one level. |
Interesting.
We nearly always stop once the damage has decreased to Stun or Wounded. The players like feeling like getting shot has some lingering consequence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JT Swift wrote: |
To compensate for this more dangerous damage system I let the PCs roll their FULL dodge skill even if doing multiple actions that turn. |
Full dodge as in dodge roll + range? Or full dodge skill without any penalties/
Do wound penalties still take out D?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zarm R'keeg
Commander
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 481
Location: PA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | "So, if we're two-person buddy-carrying this crate, my entire strength only adds 1D to his?" |
I simplify the combined actions by using powers of two. So a 5D STR is twice as strong as a 4D STR. So yeah, your entire strength may only add +1D to his. |
When I tried to announce this, one of my players debated (in the combined-lifting category):
so, with a stregth of 2D, you can lift an average of 6. Two individual characters with a 2D stregth each can lift an average of 6 seperatly. With a combined action, the could lift an average of 9. Why can they not lift an average of 12 together if they can seperatly? I am fully confident that if i had an identical clone, we could together lift at least twice the weight we could lift seperatly
I responded (with my lack of general physics knowledge):
Because neither of them are bringing their full strength to bear solely on the object, as I understand it (though I will post your question on the forum for other more knowledgable D6ers). Think about it this way- take something heavy that you can maybe lift- on the edge. From the position/way that you tandem-carry with someone, would you be able to lift it that way? (Basically bringing your full strength to bear, but only on one side)? It's sort of like, instead of bringing your 100%, both are bringing their 75%- which is still a higher total- but not lifting the same total amount of weight that each of you could bring to bear each separately lifting something solely with you 100%- distribution of grip, center of gravity, etc. prevent you from being able to bring your full strength as an exact doubling of the other person's to bear, by the nature of the different way that you have to lfit it to combine your lifting skill with the other person. My general position is based upon the fact that you and your clone could NOT, in fact, combined lift a weight double to what each of you could individually lift because of the necessities and physics of distributing the weight between you.
In response, he wrote:
when you are lifting and CARYING an object, only part of the difficulty is actualy getting it off the ground. The other part is keeping it off the ground, while moving in a certain direction. Anyone can lift much MUCH more weight then they can actually carry. And it get's more difficult to cary somthing the farther you have to go, i'm sure you will agree. This is why it is actually easier for two people to lift and carry 200 lbs together then it is for two people to lift and carry 100 lbs each seperatly. During the carry, one person can support, say, 75% of the weight for a short time while the other person gets a small break. Then, they can shift the weight and the other person can support the larger portion of the weight for a time. Since the carry mechanic in SW RPG clearly includes both lifting and carrying (since there is only one role required for the action), i think it makes sense to consider this fact when calculating how difficult it is for two people to lift somthing together.
Thoughts on this subject? (Especially those of you, like Fallon, with a head for physics as well as game mechanics?) I mean, in the end he'll just have to deal, but if possible I'd like to explain the reasoning of this game mechanic to his and another PC's satisfaction.
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com
Hard core OT, all the way! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zarm R'keeg wrote: |
When I tried to announce this, one of my players debated (in the combined-lifting category):
so, with a stregth of 2D, you can lift an average of 6. Two individual characters with a 2D stregth each can lift an average of 6 seperatly. With a combined action, the could lift an average of 9. Why can they not lift an average of 12 together if they can seperatly? I am fully confident that if i had an identical clone, we could together lift at least twice the weight we could lift seperatly...
...Thoughts on this subject? (Especially those of you, like Fallon, with a head for physics as well as game mechanics?) I mean, in the end he'll just have to deal, but if possible I'd like to explain the reasoning of this game mechanic to his and another PC's satisfaction. |
The simple explanation is that a difficulty of 12 is more than twice as hard as 6. Difficulty in SW D6 is logarithmic (?) and every additional 3.5 or so to the difficulty number represents roughly a doubling of the actual difficulty.
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
@Garhkal
Sorry I meant their full skill, as in all their dodge dice. They only get the range difficulty added to that if they are doing a Full Dodge [ie no other actions at all that turn].
As in real life [and most movies - including Star Wars] a key part of winning a gun fight is to not get shot if the first place.
_________________
- J.T. Swift
For Everything about the TARDIS check out
http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/
For all things Gallifreyan check out
http://meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
