The Benefits of Training

[Naaman]

I've thought of that, but at this stage, Im not dealing with specifics.

The main idea that I'm looking at is that when you start a training program, you're learning things that you did not already know.

Also, Ive always felt that the attribute/skill system runs into problems in the exact area you mention: A person with a 4D attribute and no skill knows less than someone with a 2D attribute and 3D+2 skill. But the 4D attribute has to pay more for that 1D+2 "training/experience" than the less talented person.

But... no system is perfect.

[MrNexx]

[Naaman]

Sure. But that's the problem. A person "born" with a high attribute (say, 4D) is, by RAW at a professional level of proficiency in every skill under that attribute. with absolutely no training whatsoever. It doesn't make any sense at all, but it's not so bad that it needs to be radically changed.

[MrNexx]

And a person born with 6D Strength is automatically a professional-quality boxer, and someone with a 4D Perception is both an adept con man, adroit leader, ace investigator and natural ninja.
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"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[Naaman]

Right. Do you see the problem?

[Dredwulf60]

[Naaman]

That's a good approach, but--as Whill would say--crunchier than I would prefer. I rather think that a solution which would appeal to me would be to say that if a character does not have at least 1 pip over the attribute, that the difficulties go up by X (5? 10? one difficulty level?... not sure exactly yet).

[MrNexx]

I think it starts going into the question of "When does the game you're running stop being the game you're running"? I.e. when do you change the basic assumptions so much that you're no longer really playing d6, but a game loosely based on d6?

By way of example, look at Shadowrun. In earlier editions (1-3), your attribute didn't really control your skill... it put a soft cap on them, but it didn't stop you from doing things with it. Instead, your attribute went into a refreshable dice pool that could be added to skill tests (so your Quickness didn't directly affect your Firearms skill, but it did give your firearms skill a soft cap AND get factored in with a few other stats into a pool that you could add additional dice from). Starting with 4e, though, your dice pool was your attribute + your skill (and different attributes might apply in different cases). These create vastly different systems, really only linked by attribute names, and some very different assumptions in adventure design, because currently, the game assumes you can try everything.

If you really want to divorce the two, I'd suggest something less drastic... like, a small penalty (-3; effectively, a one-die penalty to the roll).
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[garhkal]

[Dredwulf60]

[MrNexx]

Thinking about this, what if you subdivided skill dice even further.

Base character creation, you get 7D to divide among skills. If you want, you can break each D into 3 "pips". But what if you could break each pip into 2-3 "slots", representing that you have a base familiarity with the skill, even if it's just at your base stat?

So, someone might take one of their dice and break it into 9 "slots" to represent some basic familiarity with skills... things like Repulsorlift operations (i.e. "I can drive my car"), Languages ("I can understand Bocce and Binary, even if I can't speak it well"), etc. Skills that someone has spent neither die, nor pip, nor slot on would default to whatever version you like, but a "slot" would function at the base attribute.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[Naaman]

[garhkal]

[Dredwulf60]

What about doing something similar to what I've done with my list of talents and techniques.

This is how I personally am looking at incorporating your work here:

ie

Talent: Blaster Carbine handling.
DC: 10
The user can use their Blaster skill (Or Blaster Carbine specialization) to roll against the weapons handling difficulty to correct a stoppage or reload in a single round.

The idea is that anyone can make a roll at DC 10 to properly handle a weapon in a stress situation. After doing so successfully on 3 separate incidents (spending a CP each time) the character can now add this talent to their repertoire. (no longer needs to spend a CP to make the roll.)

Failing to 'access' the talent once resets the three-in-a row counter.

The idea being that most people won't bother even trying to obtain the skill if they only have 2D in blasters...they'll wait until they have at least a decent base skill, but at the same time, it doesn't restrict any character from giving it a try.

ie the poorly trained company clerk finds himself with a blaster carbine taken from cold dead hands while the ship is being boarded...and he's trying to reload it quickly. He might be inclined to try for the quick reload at the cost of a CP.

[Naaman]