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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | I'm just curious, have you ever used a lock picking set? |
No, actually, but I put the question to a friend who is a mechanic and has used lock picks on multiple occasions, and is also a roleplayer. He felt that it was borderline, as the ability to pick locks did require some knowledge of their internal design, but that the actual process of picking the locks was more closely related to Dexterity than Technical.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Well I renamed pick pocket to sleight of hand a long ago and it is Dexterity based. Security is used for both mechanical and electronic locks.
As for tools. If the character does not have the appropriate tools then the difficulty level is increased one level. A standard set gives no bonus but will offset the difficulty level penalty.
Very nice mechanical lock picking equipment may give a +1 pip to as much as a +1D bonus for mechanical locks.
Very nice electronic lock picking equipment may give a +1 pip to as much as a +2D bonus to electronic locks.
Typical locks are Moderate or better, military grade locks are Very Difficult or better and bank locks are Heroic or better.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | griff wrote: | | I would think lock picking could fall under security, or its own TECHNICAL SKILL. |
I like it as a Dex skill. Locksmithing (i.e. Disassembling, repairing and or building a physical lock) would certainly be a Tech skill, but the mechanics of manipulating a lock with a pick or some improvised tool are much more dependent on manual dexterity and feeling your way through the lock than a knowledge of how to disassemble and repair it. |
I'm just curious, have you ever used a lock picking set? |
I have. I've even done the credit card trick within the last 24 hours. And I got to agree with him here. It's mostly a matter of feel. Once you know what it is you are supposed to do, that is.
The problem here though is that I'd say the same about the physical side of electronics. Soldering is all DEX, even though it would be a TEC skill. But there is a huge overlap between DEX, MEC and TEC. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Roll Dexterity dice to generate a bonus to Technical skills for fine work?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Roll Dexterity dice to generate a bonus to Technical skills for fine work? |
Maybe. Frankly most TEC skills are a combination of DEX and KNO. And this is the RPG where a good mechanic doesn't need a good MEChanical stat, but a good TECnical one. So I'm not sure if there is an easy fix.
And with Star Wars being so high tech, it's possible that "repair work" is really just running diagnostic software and swapping out bad modules. I had a friend in the Air Force, and that was how they fixed stuff on his base. They'd just swap out boards, not troubleshoot and repair down to the component level.
I suppose a Jeweler is in the same boat. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I've already been working on my idea of using Knowledge as a boost stat, with booklearning knowledge used to boost rolls for skills with more practical application. Allowing Dex to be used in similar fashion seems a simple enough step if used appropriately.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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But where do you draw a line? If you are giving tech a boost based on dex or know skills, what of per or str skills? Or mech skills? What of skills that could conceivability be 'synergying' with 2 or more attributes worth of stuff?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:09 am Post subject: |
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That's why this is more of a concept than a house rule at this point; there are details that have yet to be worked out. I feel the core idea is sound, but it is the specifics that I'm having difficulty with.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But where do you draw a line? If you are giving tech a boost based on dex or know skills, what of per or str skills? Or mech skills? What of skills that could conceivability be 'synergying' with 2 or more attributes worth of stuff? |
Yeah, I'm with garhkal on this one. Knowledge is at the center of pretty much any skill. In order to play an instrument properly, you need to understand how it is played before you can refine your practice. Lifting something properly is as much a matter of knowing about body mechanics as it is raw strength. Person A could be able to bench press more than person B, but person B could more effectively help lift a pool table on to a truck if person B knows more about how body mechanics translate into getting the job done. As I've read more historical fencing manuals to learn new techniques, I can more effectively fight people who have been practicing much longer than I have.
IMO, knowledge is pretty much a prerequisite to any effective skill use. In game terms, your skill dice in a tech, mech, or even strength skill is partly your understanding of the subject, and partly your practice of the subject. It should not be boosted by a separate knowledge-based skill.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But where do you draw a line? If you are giving tech a boost based on dex or know skills, what of per or str skills? Or mech skills? What of skills that could conceivability be 'synergying' with 2 or more attributes worth of stuff? |
Yup. Which is why that can of worms has generally been left alone.
Just to Aadress your questions (not as a something I'm thinking of doing) you could:
1) Give each skill a formula, and then average the relevant attributes to get the base skill. This could be a pain.
2) Allow some skills to be taken under more than one attribute. Not nearly as troublesome as the former, and you'd only need to track the specifc skills that it would apply to.
3) Allow a character to move a skill to another attribute, by taking a specialty. This is the easiest way to do it, as you'd only need to note it when someone actually decides to do it, and it wouldn't require a list of skills that it would apply to. The player would just have to make a decent case for the shift when he wants to pick up the specialty. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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4). Come up with an Advanced skill that spans across attribute boundaries by giving it prerequisites in the appropriate skills.
As far as my original concept, it was focused mainly on Knowledge skills, in that book learning information could provide advantages to more practical skills. Alien Species could be used to generate a bonus for Persuasion or Con attempts against aliens of a specific species, Value could enhance Bargain, Tactics could provide bonuses to piloting, and so on and so forth. Basically, Knowledge skills functioned as Enhance Attribute for non-FS characters, with some limitations.
The main rule was that you made a Knowledge skill roll at normal difficulty levels, with the result generating either a bonus or a penalty based on the dice result. No rerolls, CPs or FPs were allowed, and you had to take the result and apply it to the intended skill. Attempting to make the Knowledge roll and the action skill roll in the same round incurred MAPs as normal, but the character could roll multiple Knowledge skills at reduced MAP penalties (+2 per skill roll), on the grounds that knowledge of a specific subject could easily cross over skill boundaries.
I could see limiting it to just Knowledge skills, though...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Let's assume you do go with #4. Once you start talking about the use of Advanced skills, it begins a great CP usage. The question soon becomes whether it is even worthwhile to drop another 4 cps to move the advanced skill from 2D to 2D+1, rather than move the "cooperating skill" from 4D to 4D+1.
It also seems to needlessly complicate an already intuitive system.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I was leaning towards allowing a 'synergy bonus' of +1 (not 1D), if somebody has another skill that makes sense to give a bonus.
But as you guys have mentioned, there's so much overlap between skills. It could really add a huge can of worms, and might be more trouble than it's worth.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | 4). Come up with an Advanced skill that spans across attribute boundaries by giving it prerequisites in the appropriate skills. |
I'm not in favor of adding another roll to the process. It bogs the game down. Especially once the players get multiple skills that can have an affinity bonus.
Nor do I like MAPS here, since the affinity bonus isn't actually taking another action. Just because somebody knows something shouldn't penalize them.
I hate the idea that CPs, etc. aren't allowed on the affinity roll. There's just no justification for it.
Oh, and assuming it did work this way, how much is the bonus? It needs to be good enough to warrent the difficulties and MAP, yet if it's too good it can end up having more effect than the primary skill.
I'd rather see something like a fixed bonus that doesn't require a roll. Maybe +1 per D in the related skill. Maybe you can spend a CP to get the bonus instead of rolling an extra die? |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Let me add my voice as another who would very much be against (a) another roll (as it slows things down) and (b) costing a MAP for a knowledge roll (in this case, where it's done simultaneously). Either someone knows the subject at hand, or they don't, so I don't see that as slowing someone down at all, or causing them to multi-task in some way.
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