Younglings & Cadets

[DB 2.0]

Actually what I want to do is start a Clone Wars Era Campaign where every starts on equal footing and the normal Dice limits. a bit of research turns up that a 18D/7D character can't pass all the Jedi initiate Trials let alone be competitive in the "Jedi Temple Apprentice Tournament".

let's look at the Jedi initiate Trials.

Trail 1: recite the Jedi Code wile in meditation also during normal classes display an understanding of the Jedi Code. Task 1 recite the Jedi Code wile in meditation well that's drop in to an emptiness state using the Emptiness force power, Moderate Control roll (say 11) and make an Easy (say 6) Jedi Lore roll as an additional action wile keeping in the emptiness state. Task 2 display an understanding of the Jedi Code, make a Moderate Jedi Lore roll (say 11)
to do that you need Jedi Lore at 3D and if your lucky could get away with Control of 2D but should be 3D to be realistic and the "Emptiness" force power

Trail 2: Build your Lightsaber then more Meditation exercises and Staged Lightsaber Combat with a Hood. Task 1 Build a lightsaber, to do this you need at least Lightsaber Repair of 3D to build one in around a month with a Natural Crystal, Quality Parts provided by the Order and the help of a Jedi Master and/or an Architect Droid (to drop the TN low enough otherwise you'll be at it for months). Task 2 Meditation, an other Control roll to enter an Emptiness state. Task 3 staged Lightsaber Combat with a Hood well you need a Lightsaber Skill of 4D to avoid cutting bits off your self normally, the Lightsaber Combat force ability (Moderate Control roll & Easy Sense roll) you could get away with 2D in Control & Sense and 4D Lightsaber, But I'd recommend 3D in Control & Sense and 5D in Lightsaber, since this is "this test was not so much a demonstration in skill so much as technique" even an Advanced Lightsaber skill wouldn't go astray.

Trial 3: during the Clone Wars this is "prove that their connection to the Force was strong and that they were capable of meeting the standards of being a Jed" more Meditation and Jedi Lore tests and display that they had enough Dice in Force Skills (say 3D+ in each).

with 18D/7D I can build a character that could conceivably just pass Trials 1 & 2 but not Trail 3 or be competitive in the "Jedi Temple Apprentice Tournament". I want a game with "Jedi" and other characters in the same campaign, but I don't want to be throwing extra dice at everyone. SW characters are Heroes and Bad-Asses, Jedi are Memetic Bad-Asses. Even in SW your character doesn't start as a Memetic Badass, that's something you build to over years of game play.

[shootingwomprats]

It doesn't seem that you really have a choice if you continue to work from the idea that you can only have 18D/7D to start out character creation. Toss some extra dice at it and call it a day.

Sorry I am not following why this is difficult for you. If the system does not work as it is to do what you want, change it to make it do what you want. Its pretty much that simple. Want people to somewhat equal? Make sure everyone is built on the same amount of points. Done.

You need to decide how many dice your gonna spread out and where. That is why I gave you some suggestions earlier. I myself see Padawan Learners at the the point where they are ready to take the Trials and become Knights as having no around 4D in Force skills. This is of course towards the end of their training. Beginning Padawan Learners probably start out with Control 1D or/and Sense 1D.

I feel that Jedi Knights are in the 5D range and Masters in the 8D range.

Again its going to come down to you taking the rules and making them do what you want =)
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[Ral_Brelt]

What I'm getting from this discussion is that you're wanting to do new Padawans, and basing their skill level off of the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoons. The problem I'm seeing is you're using Jedi Knights and Masters as your reference. In Clone Wars, we see around 4 Padawans in the whole series? Of them only one regularly. Asoka is far from a typical Padawan in that she can keep up with Anakin, who is the savior of the Force.

If I'm off base, my apologies. If this is your basis, you're hurting yourself and causing more issues than there are by trying to identify them as 'typical' Jedi. They are exceptional chars in a group of exceptional people. They are the focus of the show after all.

[garhkal]

[crazydanny1]

I have to agree with Garhkal on this, but I also have to back DB up on his comment about game play and passing the trials.

I'm currently playing a up-and-coming Force-user character. While my skills are Control 4D+1, Sense 5D, and Alter 2D+1, I can't pull off crap unless I'm having a real good day with the dice. Lightsaber Combat has just started to be useful (Lightsaber 5D, Lightsaber: Form IV 4D+1) and I can't do much above using Force Powers on myself at this point. It's getting better, but my other characters that aren't Force-sensitive get to shine more so in combat than my Force-user.

I consider my PC to be padawan level. I might play him as more of a Knight-style hero, but he's still a padawan when it comes to abilities. His martial abilities and other skills far outweigh his Force abilities as of right now. But he's getting there.

So, in order to make a campaign believable and have your padawans be "playable", you're going to have to tweak their starting dice pools. Just put down a firm limit on how high your players can go. Make them good because they are the heroes of your show, after all, but don't give them the sun, moon, and the stars.
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http://swbloodlines.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Bloodlines_Wiki

[shootingwomprats]

Still not understanding why no one wants to use:

Padawan Learner
Attribute Dice: 18D
Force Skill Dice: 1-15D
Skill Dice: 7-20D

As a brand new Padawan Learner, we are talking its right from RAW. An advanced Padawan Learner getting ready for the trials to become a Knight might be as high as CSA 5D, whereas a Padawan Learner of middle training might have CSA 3D.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it require something like 20-25 years to train from a Padawan to become a Knight? Also, this is INTENSE training not typical public school learning? This training would explain the additional 13D [39 pips] in skills.

Again I don't understand. This works for what you want. It is sliding and shows a range of typical skill level. It is not confusing nor adds complication for the sake of being complicated.
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[garhkal]

What will any non force user get to build their pc with" Since starting out force skills (CSA) are taken FROM your attribute die pool (the 18), giving a padawan Not only up to 15d in force attributes/skills, BUT the full 18D starting attributes, on top of 20 or so D of skills is a massive bump up on anything else. A maxed out human (say smuggler) would have 24D worth of attributes. Your padawan gets 21d starting +30d of skills..
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[DB 2.0]

To train to be a Jedi Knight in the Golden Age of the Jedi, you are taken (forcefully if need be) from your families wile still a toddler (developmentally no older than a two year old) you spend the next 14-16 years being academically "Hot-Housed" and undergoing intense Martial Arts training and from about age 10 receiving Elite levels of Paramilitary training.

this is not like sending you kids to "Camp Jedi" for the Summer, to Kendo a couple of times a week and Scouts on the weekend then Army Cadets when they are old enough, this is a boarding school where their are no Holidays and Weekends are just when the training schedule kicks back to low gear for a couple of days (so the munchkins don't go all Columbine with a Laser Sword).

if you're very gifted you may progress from Initiate to Padawan as early as 14, but it's more likely to be some time between 16 & 18 or as late as 20 if you are a remedial case and not thrown out beforehand. You then have an other Ten years as a Padawan in front of you before you become a Jedi Knight some time in your mid to late 20's. from the time you're snatched from your cradle to when you loose your braid it's around a quarter century of intensive education & training

[shootingwomprats]

A beginning Padawan Learner would be built on 18D/7D and would be able to spend attribute dice for additional Force skills per RAW. This is referred to as "basic character generation".

"Basic character generation" would allow a player to build a Padawan Learner at the beginning of their training and would probably be 5-10 years old.

When creating an "advanced characters" the player may not redistribute Attribute dice into Force skills. The Force Dice pool is a suggested amount of die placed in Force skills and represent Skill Dice placed in Force skills through training.

With this in mind if you wanted to make a non-Force User on par with the Padawan Learners (again only if they are being created as "Advanced" characters) build them on 18D/Skill Dice Pool (Force Skill Dice + Skill Dice).

Example: The GM decides he is going to create a group of moderately skilled Padawans Learners who do not yet have a Master, with a sprinkling of non-Force Users. The GM decides the Padawans will be from 11-15 years old (as old as 20) and sets dice pools at: Attribute 18D, Force Skills 9D (capped at 5D) and Skill Dice 13D. For non-Force Users the dice pool would be: Attribute 18D, Skills 22D (Force Skills 9D + Skill Dice 13D). Both groups have dice pool parity at this time.

In hindsight it would be a good idea to set a cap of how high or how many Skill Dice may be placed into a skill. I would suggest a 6-8D cap. This can be any limit the GM wishes to place depending on the flavor of his game.
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Don Diestler
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[DB 2.0]

Although the terminology isn't matching up yet, I think you are seeing where I was coming from originally. I'm planing on a game where the characters are around 10-12 years old, the Jedi are still "Younglings" (or more correctly Initiates), the Clones will be still "Clone Youth Brigade" and one player wants to play a Civilian Prodigy.


I'm limiting equipment to one weapon (Sporting Blaster, Training Lightsaber or conventional melee weapon) and one piece of other equipment (Data Pad, Macrobionoculars, Utility Belt or Med Kit) per character and perhaps a simple (+1) knife and medpack or breath mask.

[shootingwomprats]

[DB 2.0] In that case make the Padawan 18D/3D/11D and everyone else 18D/0D/14D and call it done or some variation thereof. Just be sure that whatever you put in Force Dice you add to the Skill Dice for non-Force Users.
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[garhkal]

I still see issues.. a 10-12 yr old with over double the standard starting dice pool? Just not Jiving. But then again since in the SW templates, whether you make a 5 yr old (kid template) or an 80 yr old (veteran spacer) it matters not as both get the same stats.
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[DB 2.0]

Kid Template is 10-12 according to 1E & 2E, R&E sais 8-16. I know lots of kids more capable and mature than some of the O2 thieves that pass themselves as normal adults, but then again I piety the world for those we will leave as it's custodians given the vast majority of kids today.

[shootingwomprats]

[garhkal] Are you purposefully trying to be antagonistic? I already explained that a basic, beginning Padawan Learner would be built on the 18D/7D from the basic book and coincides with the "kid" template also in the basic book. So I am completely mystified why you do not seem to understand this. I have clearly explained that beyond the basic Padawan the rest are ranges that typical Padawans, Knights and Masters.
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[garhkal]

But are the PCs going to be made as "Beginning padawans" or the higher stat ones you listed?
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