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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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So would it be a con roll to fool someone? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Hyfigh Ensign

Joined: 27 Nov 2012 Posts: 26
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Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Con seems the best suited.
I suppose if your players wanted it bad enough, you could even work up a "Size-up" skill, or some-such. |
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cheshire Arbiter-General (Moderator)

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Posts: 4866
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Interesting idea. One thing that I rather liked from a MUD I used to play back in the day was a "consider" skill. It allowed some perception as to how you matched up with a person.
It's not terribly unrealistic. If you have considerable training in a combat-oriented skill it allows you to take a look at others within a few seconds and get a handle on their relative abilities. For example in my historical swordsmanship, you can tell if someone has had training, but is unpracticed and rusty, or if they'd had rushed/sloppy training but had lots of practice, and so on just by how they line themselves up and the way the hold themselves and their weapon. _________________ __________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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Fallon Kell Commodore


Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes you also just have a sense. Even without combat training, sometimes you just get a feeling about someone that they could drop you dead in two blows. I'd say it's a standard perception check with added difficulty modifiers based on unfamiliarity with combat. Also, I'd make the veteran stormtroopers easier to detect than the royal guard. He completes his mission, and part of his mission is to blend in. _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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It might also depend on whether the pc (or npc) has encountered that type of soldier before. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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jmanski Arbiter-General (Moderator)

Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to use a baseball analogy here since my son is playing high school ball: you can tell if a person (player, in this instance) is good or bad within a few seconds or so just by watching their level of coordination, but it takes time to get more detail. Our varsity catcher, for instance, looks pretty good until you really watch him for an inning or so and you start to see some holes in his game (he uses his hands instead of blocking pitches in the dirt, for instance).
So I think there needs to be a time element if you allow such a thing, progressing from good/bad to can shoot/can't shoot or some such thing. _________________ Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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DougRed4 Rear Admiral


Joined: 18 Jan 2013 Posts: 2295 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who works in law enforcement (and with a lot of ex-military people), I completely agree with what a number of you have said: that one can tell a lot based on how one carries themselves, how they're dressed, how alert and aware they are of their surroundings, and how they carry their equipment (and even what condition that equipment is in). I don't find characters "sussing that out" to be power gaming, or meta gaming (at all).
I'd allow a Perception roll, with the possibility of Tactics, depending on how they described what they wanted to do/know.
One other thing combat experienced persons do is position themselves, especially where they will sit in an establishment (I do this, as do others I've talked to). So they won't sit with their backs to anyone, and they'll ofen have a good view of all entrances. They likely also will have calculated where all of the exits are. Little things like this, as well as things like stance, posture, and more can tell one tons of information about their potential adversary.
I wouldn't tell my players what die code the person has. But I would say "The stormtrooper on the left carries himself like a savvy combat veteran". _________________ Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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cheshire Arbiter-General (Moderator)

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Posts: 4866
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | So would it be a con roll to fool someone? |
I've been thinking about this. I'm wondering how much of a challenge it would be. I've tinkered with the idea of going to a fencing tournament and immediately taking a sloppy stance leaving a part of my arm open which is a classic newbie mistake, and then after the bout officially starts shift as I take the first attack. I've thought about it... but never done it.
The problem I've mulled over is a fact I've noticed with performers. Watching a trained actor try to act poorly always comes off strangely artificial. It doesn't mimick untrained acting... it's just bad acting. Likewise with singers. If you listen to someone who knows how to sing well sing like a complete amateur, it just comes off technically bad... not like an amateur.
I wonder if the same is true for someone trying to bluff his/her way through such an encounter. Of course that might also be a matter of a good bluff and a bad bluff. If your bluff roll is lower than their perception, then you can come off as a professional trying to look like an amateur, but not carrying it off well. _________________ __________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral

Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Frandal wrote: | In fact I think that the scenes where Han's hoslter isn't tight is due a preparation failure more than "Han is a slopy man with more pose than real training" I don't care if his skill comes from his military past or for his years on the smuggling bussines, it's obvious that this character is a well trained gungslinger and one you don't want to cross in a fight.
Details like if he has the hoslter stripped to his leg or not, from my point of view, shouldn't be important, remember that when we see him we are seeing a representation of a character, a film, made a long time ago but in a planet very very close, by people very similiar to us and this kind of "mistakes" shouldn't be taken into account to determine one or another character background or abilities.
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What Skyler and I were addressing was exactly that: it's the small details that separate a skilled, prepared fighter/gunslinger/martial artist/whatever from everyone else. Having your kit arrayed all sloppy about your person is something that no veteran of combat would make a habit of. It's clear that someone who has not experienced a real gun fight or all out battle etc would not be keen to the concept of a "tactical load out."
For example, when I used to work patrol, all the tactically proficient individuals carried their magazines on the opposite side of their body from their pistol. The "clueless" ones carried their extra magazines in the "convenient" mag-carrier located on the pistol holster itself. These kinds of details are tell tale. There is no getting around it.
Also, I disagree that Han is any kind of hot-shot, Doc Holiday type gun slinger. He misses 90% of his shots  |
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jmanski Arbiter-General (Moderator)

Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Some on purpose.... _________________ Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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Dromdarr_Alark Commander


Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 426 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I just describe what the enemies look like and the sort of swagger they have. It's fun to watch the players overreact or assume the enemy is harmless.
I don't think it's necessary to create a whole new mechanic for judging enemies. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral

Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Its always fun to allow a player to draw a false conclusion. For a certain type of game, however (one in which duels are frequent, or at least monumental), sizing up you opponent can add a lof of tension and flavor to the game. |
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Dromdarr_Alark Commander


Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 426 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Good point ^^^
I still wouldn't have a roll for it - but that's just how I roll.  |
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jmanski Arbiter-General (Moderator)

Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dromdarr_Alark wrote: |
I still wouldn't have a roll for it - but that's just how I roll.  |
That's such a great quote.... you may have to put that one in your signature  _________________ Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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Dromdarr_Alark Commander


Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 426 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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jmanski wrote: |
That's such a great quote.... you may have to put that one in your signature  |
Will do. 8) _________________ "I still wouldn't have a roll for it - but that's just how I roll." |
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