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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jatrell wrote: | | Well, I want death to be part of the game. Makes players think hard before they do something heroic seeing as it can end up being something stupid very quickly. But I also just didn't want them to take away all of their hard work. These characters require a lot of work. Not like D&D where you can roll a new char and instantly be equal to the group. Just trying to find a way around killing hard work is all. |
I'd probably just go easier on the players in the adventure. I send enemies that are generally too weak to defeat my player after him, or give him strong NPC help. When he starts thinking that he can get away with not dodging and just soaking the damage, I have my TIE fighter pilots burn a CP or two on damage without telling him. Not enough to kill him, but enough to put him in his place and make the enemies seem like more of a threat than they really are.
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jatrell wrote: | | Well, I want death to be part of the game. Makes players think hard before they do something heroic seeing as it can end up being something stupid very quickly. But I also just didn't want them to take away all of their hard work. These characters require a lot of work. Not like D&D where you can roll a new char and instantly be equal to the group. Just trying to find a way around killing hard work is all. |
Here are a few suggestions based on the PCs being 18D attribute, 7D skill starting characters. Note that I phrased these in the imperative because it is clear, direct, and short grammatically. But really these are just suggestions, not rules. 
(1) Remember that a 2D advantage in D6 tends to be a strong advantage.
(2) Remember that superiority in numbers tends to = a bonus on dice. So two opponents vs. one player will force the player to make at least one additional action with consequent Multiple Action Penalties (MAPs).
(3) Taking the above together, if you set the opponents equal in numbers and 1D lower in relevant skills you give the players a small edge or advantage. If you set the opposition to 2D lower and equivalent numbers you give the players a strong advantage. If you set the opponents to 2D lower and 50% more numbers the players still have a small edge and will feel more heroic since they are outnumbered.
(4) Give average enemy forces no CPS and no FPS. This gives players an edge since they can use CPs (and FPs).
(5) Give good enemy forces 1-2 CPs and no force points.
(6) Give enemy lieutenants 5 CPs and no force points.
(7) Give the enemy leader, big boss, or toughest opponents 5 CPs (or so) and 1 FP.
(8 ) Generally have the enemies use their CPs for defense (or escape) not offense. This makes the risk of death lower for the PCs.
Edit: That was supposed to be an '8' not a smiley.
Last edited by Bren on Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Also, remember just cause they are the enemy does not necessitate they are evil/bad. They could be going to capture/wound.
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Fallon Kell
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
(4) Give average enemy forces no CPS and no FPS. This gives players an edge since they can use CPs (and FPs).
(5) Give good enemy forces 1-2 CPs and no force points.
(6) Give enemy lieutenants 5 CPs and no force points.
(7) Give the enemy leader, big boss, or toughest opponents 5 CPs (or so) and 1 FP.
(8 ) Generally have the enemies use their CPs for defense (or escape) not offense. This makes the risk of death lower for the PCs.
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Bren's suggestions here contradict mine directly, but his way works too.
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Bren's suggestions here contradict mine directly, but his way works too. |
Thanks,  but not really a contradiction from how I often GM. Since the concern seemed to me to be more about how not to kill the PCs than about how to throw a scare into them, I emphasized that aspect.
Also, what you suggested works best if the GM isn't rolling in the open and can fudge the result when the TIE pilot's CP explodes into 4 sixes and a 5. Otherwise the attempt to throw a scare in the PCs may end up destroying their ship in a one shot TPK. Not everyone games with GM fudging, so I went with something that works if GM die rolls are open/unaltered or secret/and occasionally fudged. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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If the enemy forces are weaker than the pcs, with no cp/fp, and lower stats, how can you 'really' put a scare into them?
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Superior number or just good planning/intelligent behaviour can generally make most enemies a threat.
A character built on 450 character points can be killed/captured when they sleep just the same as a starter level character.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:14 am Post subject: |
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In which case you are setting the stage that stands a good chance to kill them, if you strike when they can't defend (or are weaker at it).. which is kind of going against the basis of this thread.
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | If the enemy forces are weaker than the pcs, with no cp/fp, and lower stats, how can you 'really' put a scare into them? |
You don't. If this is in response to my posts you might want to reread the part where I say: "Since the concern seemed to me to be more about how not to kill the PCs than about how to throw a scare into them, I emphasized that aspect." Here "that aspect" refers to "how not to kill the PCs."
But to answer your question, if I want to throw a scare into the PCs, with individually inferior opponents I would:
(1) not tell the players that the opponents are inferior - new players often haven't learned just how weak RAW stormtroopers and army troopers are in comparison to beginning PCs.
(2) have the inferior opponents outnumber the PCs. Most players understand the simple mathematics of the odds.
(3) have the opposition take down a few blaster fodder NPCs on the PCs side; this demonstrates the threat without hurting the PCs.
(4) give the opposition an effective CO so that they use good tactics (maybe better than the PCs) and combined actions to increase the danger level. Shots that narrowly miss or even require a CP to dodge help make a credible threat.
(5) change my mind and make the opposition less inferior.
(6) when all else fails use (4) and or (5) to the point that shots hit but do not necessarily kill the PCs.
| Quote: | | In which case you are setting the stage that stands a good chance to kill them, if you strike when they can't defend (or are weaker at it).. which is kind of going against the basis of this thread. |
That's one reason some GMs fudge. That way the GM can raise the threat to the point that it is credible - shots that nearly hit or hit and nearly damage the PCs or hit and but only stun or would - and that forces the use of defensive CPs by the PCs. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Kind of counter productive though.. Raise the threat level to be a serious challenge but fudge it so as to not actually make it harmful.
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Kind of counter productive though.. Raise the threat level to be a serious challenge but fudge it so as to not actually make it harmful. |
Well generally I don't use both, more of an either or - but you asked.  |
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vanir
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Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:53 am Post subject: |
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well in D&D you can get resurrected...
There's no problem with cloning in SWRPG but the stipulation is major.
There are two kinds of Star Wars galaxy, ewoks and lightsabres. What I mean is there is the dystopic-scifi EU, or space-opera EU and both are different directions to have in your SWRPG.
My group likes dystopic EU, like dark horse comics and the darker themed concept art for LF.
So we have cloning facilities, sure. We erased most of the prequels canon and substituted it for the original dystopia of a tattooine farmboy in a galaxy with mostly evil buggers and criminals in it.
Mandalorians have cloning facilities in this alternate SW galaxy. Palpatine got his hands on them during the final battles of the Mandalorian Wars, known as the Clone War. Mandalorians cloned Jedi, which made them insane and dark Jedi, which they sent back against the Republic. This was all orchestrated by Palpatine however, as the Jedi fought the Mandalorians in the Clone War, he was busy rising to power in the Senate.
So this is basically the Dark Horse comics canonical routé. There's no problem with it. But you should know where you're at, so you can write up the rest of the GM duties accordingly, to keep logical consistency.
The minus 1pip in a random attribute penalty for each cloning is very good by the way. I'm going to borrow that for our game if you don't mind.
Other than that clones have a random tendency to go dark side, in game mechanics all I could think of was starting them at 2 DSP by default, so they have a 1D6 chance whenever tempted to do something crazy.
It is up to the Player to atone for a birth that he didn't choose, further temptation from the Dark Side to go insane, because it seems a little unfair.
But that's how the dark side works. It makes you think you're important and you're not, everyone is. |
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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The problem with having your characters "cloned" after they die, is that a viable clone takes a few years in the vat to grow to full size. Not to mention, increasing growth rate, also increases the speed of aging. Then there's the problem that most characters aren't going to be flashing their memories and skill sets on a regular basis, just in case they die. Even if you use Spaarti cylinders to grow a full sized clone, it takes 1 year, and only Thrawn figured out how to speed it up at all, and his clones had the disadvantage of needing a powerful force user to effectively direct them. Not to mention, most of his speed grown clones had serious mental issues.
In my opinion, cloning the dead should be reserved for villains and their minions. It cheapens the death, the sacrifice that a player character made. I'm one of those GMs who tends to not have my players slaughtered by the first group of mooks that comes up, but I also don't allow resurrection of any form. If they do die, it is permanent.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Plus the pc's would effectively become immortal.
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Volar the Healer
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Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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In short my answer is: Cloning for characters, yes. Cloning for players, no.
Only once has a character been cloned in my game. He used it for parts. Even if a player character had a complete clone, I would never allow a player to run it. It would definately be an NPC. A clone is not you, just like your twin brother is not you.
Though, it would be an interesting NPC - most of the same skills, memories, and experiences of the original - being run by the Director. Heh-heh, yes, I think I could have fun with that... 
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