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Naaman Vice Admiral

Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure it should work like that. If that were the case, the higher any character's perception, the more susceptible to flashbangs and sonic attacks... I'm just not convinced that a character with 2D perception would be more resilient against such an attack than a character with 4D or 5D naturally.
In fact, I would think that a higher perception score would give you more defense against such an attack since your senses are more able to differentiate stimuli (if flashbangs impose a perception penalty, a higher perception leaves you with more dice to roll). |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16406 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: |
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The distinction that was made (which I agree with) was that Control is about using the Force to exercise control over one's own body, while Sense was used to allow the Jedi to be aware of what is going outside of himself. Because Magnify Senses is a Sense power, and not a Control one, the input was assumed to come from the Force, not the Jedi's physical senses. If Magnify Senses had been a Control power, on the other hand, the Jedi would be using the Force to enhance his own physical senses, and therefore would be more vulnerable to sensory-based attacks.
In fact, treating Magnify Senses in this fashion is safer for the Jedi, as the Force also provides a sensory cutout (or an Auto-Sense in WH40K terms) that protects the Jedi from harmful sensory input. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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This is the thread here.
It's in the house rules section. _________________ Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.
Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16406 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Esoomian wrote: | This is the thread here.
It's in the house rules section. |
Ha. Figures I was the one who started the thread. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Fallon Kell wrote: | Bren wrote: | Right. Jedi should be flipping people and things off anyways.
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"F you, refrigerator! F you, landspeeder mechanic!" | Darn typo. I meant to type - "Jedi should not be flipping people and things off." Still funny the first way, but only in a jokes on me sense. |
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Bren Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: | This still presents a problem if the Jedi does not know exactly what he is searching for or where it is located. And, successful activation of the power does what exactly? | Lets the Jedi perceive something that he normally could not because it was too far away, too soft/faint, too small, etc.
Quote: | Does it reveal the information the Jedi seeks? | No. He still needs to roll search, perception, or what have you. It just allows him to perceive something outside the normal range of his senses.
Typically we don't give the Jedi a bonus to his search/perception roll. It it is something obvious i.e. the Jedi knows it is there - but just too far away - then he sees it. For example, what is the design on the flag flying over the castle way over there? He knows there is a flag, but it is too far away to see without magnify sense or a macrobinoculars. On the other hand, if he uses magnify sense to increase his hearing then he can overhear a conversation at the table way over there in the corner. He only needs to roll perception if he would need to roll perception if the conversation was at the same table. More likely, he may need to roll languages (if it isn't in basic).
Perhaps you are wanting the power to do more that what we have interpreted it as doing. |
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Fallon Kell Commodore


Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | Fallon Kell wrote: | Bren wrote: | Right. Jedi should be flipping people and things off anyways.
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"F you, refrigerator! F you, landspeeder mechanic!" | Darn typo. I meant to type - "Jedi should not be flipping people and things off." Still funny the first way, but only in a jokes on me sense. |
I think you just accidentally coined the Wink of Sarcasm.  _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
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Bren Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Fallon Kell wrote: | I think you just accidentally coined the Wink of Sarcasm.  | Fortunately experience has tempered my arrogance with a touch of humility as well as an ability to see the humor in my own foibles. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: |
Perhaps you are wanting the power to do more that what we have interpreted it as doing. |
It does seem that C has that penchant for doing so for force powers.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Bren Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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To be fair, crmcneil didn't start this thread. But he does like defined dice adds rather than undefined or subjective benefits. But that's one thing you and he have in common, I think.
Personally I don't use the bonuses for macrobinoculars. I also don't generally use range bonuses and penalties for the search skill. So I basically treat vision enhancements and such as allowing you to see things you couldn't otherwise. If I used penalties to search I would probably just remove penalty dice for using macrobinoculars rather than adding a bonus to the search skill.
If you want dice bonuses, I would just use the bonuses for macrobinoculars for vision and something similar for the other senses. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16406 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | To be fair, crmcneil didn't start this thread. But he does like defined dice adds rather than undefined or subjective benefits. But that's one thing you and he have in common, I think. :wink: |
No point in arguing when it's true. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman Vice Admiral

Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: |
Perhaps you are wanting the power to do more that what we have interpreted it as doing. |
Maybe you're right. I just don't "get" magnify senses. What you're saying seems to suggest that a Jedi would roll the power, and then could hear anything that wasn't PERFECTLY silent sneaking up on him. Or are you suggesting that magnify senses would not actually make the Jedi any more able to detect soft foot steps than his normal hearing? Confusing...
The power doesn't take into account the probability of opposed rolls/skills, even when the Jedi's senses have a direct effect on whether he gets stabbed in the back or not (let's assume he hasn't learned danger sense, for these purposes). |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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I see it as amplifying what you can hear, not making it so you can't get surprised. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Bren Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
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The way we have used it, was a force equivalent to a piece of equipment. Sort of like the enhanced senses of Superman or the Six Million Dollar Man/Woman. Those enhancements don't generally prevent surprise.
It didn't give any bonuses towards not being surprised, that's what danger sense is for after all, it just let the Jedi perceive things that normal beings could not perceive.
Enhance vision - macrobinoculars or maybe magnifying glass/microscope
Enhance hearing - like a big ear listening device
Enhanced smell - I don't think we've used that, but it would be the olfactory equivalent of a macrobinoculars
Enhanced taste - might be useful for detecting trace flavors in food or drink; with practice one might be able to detect poison or drugs I suppose
Enhanced touch - haven't used this either, but as an analogy a friend of mine who reads Braille can differentiate the dots much more readily than my untrained fingers can, enhanced touch would let the Jedi detect very small differences in texture, temperature, etc. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14359 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I actually could see it helping you out (enhanced hearing) avoiding being surprised (better perception of enemy) but not outright stop it happening.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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