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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:05 am Post subject: |
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What are some possible modifications that could be made to a pistol to make it a melee weapon? A miniature force-pike attached under the barrel? A hand guard that allows it to be used like a set of brass knuckles? Thoughts and suggestions?
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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In the movie "Equilibrium" the pistols used by the cleric had little spikes that popped out of the bottom of the pistol grip/magazine. When held by the barrel, the weapon could be used like a hammer. Of course it could be a blade instead of spikes.
That's all I can think of at the moment...
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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How about this:
Imagine a pistol that is shaped like Dooku's lightsaber (instead of like an "L"). Now, that could be a knife/machete with a gun built in. It could also be an axe or a hammer or whatever. |
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I am wholeheartedly for a different sect of Force-users that carry a different weapon than the Jedi lightsaber, but I wouldn't be putting mall ninja-type blades on a handgun no way, no how. But that's me.
I definitely agree with the sentiment that the Teepo Jedi (I didn't realize everyone else was familiar with the Teepo!) idea was a good idea with poor follow-through, and would love to see someone go about it or something like it right and proper.
Have any of you ever read Steve Perry's Matadora series? Or just the first book; "The Man Who Never Missed"? Perry came up with a rather cool weapon that was difficult to use, but really awesome. Basically a dart gun glued to the back of your hand that fires when you point your finger, loaded with either dummy darts for practice, or a neurotoxin dart that basically puts someone in a coma for six months. Of course, you could load them with whatever else you came up with; that's just what the main character used in the book(s). If you haven't read it/them, find "The Man Who Never Missed" and buy it. I imagine you'll thank me. 8)
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | What are some possible modifications that could be made to a pistol to make it a melee weapon? A miniature force-pike attached under the barrel? A hand guard that allows it to be used like a set of brass knuckles? Thoughts and suggestions? |
I fail to see why you would bother... didnt knife-pistols go out of fashion around the 16th century?
Heres a pistol/knuckleduster/knife variant..
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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ZzaphoD, I find your lack of faith disturbing. 
Why bother? Because it looks cool, which is a major motivating factor in the design of anything in the SWU. Go watch Equilibrium (2002) starring Christian Bale. The idea here is a pistol that can also be used as a close combat weapon, much like certain scenes in that film.
EDIT: Or better yet, just watch this. The clerics in Equilibrium practice a martial arts technique called Gun Kata to do what they do. Wikipedia defines it as follow:
"Gun Kata is a fictional gun-fighting martial art discipline that is a significant part of the film. It is based upon the premise that, given the positions of the participants in a gun battle, the trajectories of fire are statistically predictable. By pure memorization of the positions, one can fire at the most likely location of an enemy without aiming at him in the traditional sense of pointing a gun at a specific target. By the same token, the trajectories of incoming fire are also statistically predictable, so by assuming the appropriate stance, one can keep one's body clear of the most likely way of enemy bullets."
It looks super-human in the film, but then, that is what Jedi do in Star Wars.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Matthias777 wrote: | I am wholeheartedly for a different sect of Force-users that carry a different weapon than the Jedi lightsaber, but I wouldn't be putting mall ninja-type blades on a handgun no way, no how. But that's me.
I definitely agree with the sentiment that the Teepo Jedi (I didn't realize everyone else was familiar with the Teepo!) idea was a good idea with poor follow-through, and would love to see someone go about it or something like it right and proper. |
I agree. I was disillusioned by the idea of the Teepo because they eschewed the lightsaber in favor of the gun. Personally, I like the way Equilibrium did it, with the Tetragrammaton Clerics mixing the gun into more traditional martial arts that included the use of swords. A variation on the Teepo that included both lightsaber and blaster combat abilities depending on the situation would be very interesting to me. I just wish someone had picked a better name than Teepo. IMO, it's lacking something essential to be truly cool...
| Quote: | | Have any of you ever read Steve Perry's Matadora series? Or just the first book; "The Man Who Never Missed"? Perry came up with a rather cool weapon that was difficult to use, but really awesome. Basically a dart gun glued to the back of your hand that fires when you point your finger, loaded with either dummy darts for practice, or a neurotoxin dart that basically puts someone in a coma for six months. Of course, you could load them with whatever else you came up with; that's just what the main character used in the book(s). If you haven't read it/them, find "The Man Who Never Missed" and buy it. I imagine you'll thank me. 8) |
I've been looking around at used book stores when I have the time. Currently I have The Machiavelli Interface, The Omega Cage and The Musashi Flex. When I have time and money to do some shopping around, I intend to complete my series.
Of the three I have, the one I have enjoyed the most is The Musashi Flex, which centers around the origins of both Matadora as a martial form and the Reflex drug. Matadora and the Gun Kata actually have a key similarity, in that they both use optimum positioning to avoid attacks and counter attack.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I need to see Equilibrium. A friend recommended it to me awhile back and I never got around to watching anything more than the trailer.
Exploring the idea of "Jedi but with guns", I am thinking that firearms, rather than blasters, would make more sense (but why limit it to just one sect?). Custom, hand-built firearms (easy to make if you're just going for something like a zip gun, but something on the level of a tricked out racegun would take some serious work), custom handloads (I'm thinking something like the FN 5.7x28mm round), and integrally suppressed barrels (suppressor is integrated into the barrel, rather than attached to the end; example here).
| crmcneill wrote: | | I've been looking around at used book stores when I have the time. Currently I have The Machiavelli Interface, The Omega Cage and The Musashi Flex. When I have time and money to do some shopping around, I intend to complete my series. |
Maybe not as cheap as you're looking for, but Steve Perry just released the first three books as ebooks here.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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More and more I'm liking the idea of a blaster Jedi, but only as a single character or perhaps a very small sect that converted to blaster use when lightsabers went out of style with the purge and all that. To me, the reason that the character has honed his blaster fighting to a lightsaber-esque level is the most important factor in my willingness to accept it as part of the SWU.
Matthias, for what it's worth, a racegun is actually not a very good battle implement, but I do see where you're going. |
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | More and more I'm liking the idea of a blaster Jedi, but only as a single character or perhaps a very small sect that converted to blaster use when lightsabers went out of style with the purge and all that. To me, the reason that the character has honed his blaster fighting to a lightsaber-esque level is the most important factor in my willingness to accept it as part of the SWU. |
This is a good thing. All too often, people throw something together in the EU (even C-canon, sometimes) without coming up with a plausible reason for it. I could see Jedi doing it because of the purge. I could see Force-users doing it because they were from someplace in Wild Space that has yet to be discovered by the galaxy proper, and had never seen nor heard of a lightsaber. I could see Force-users rejecting the Jedi way for a multitude of reasonings (and, watching the prequels, I can easily imagine Jedi disagreeing with how the often foolish and contradictory Jedi establishment worked/thought/ran things enough to leave), and had rejected the lightsaber as a symbol of their separation from the Jedi establishment. Lastly, I can see Jedi or Force-users forced to use something other than lightsabers simply because they lacked the resources and/or training to build them (stranded somewhere that had basic to decent tech but no way off-planet, or no way out of system). I can think of a multitude of reasons, but you're right, there should be a very good one for whatever group/sect is outlined.
| Naaman wrote: | | Matthias, for what it's worth, a racegun is actually not a very good battle implement, but I do see where you're going. |
You are absolutely right, and I really should have clarified. I more meant a custom-built/handmade firearm that was as customized/finely-tuned as a racegun than an actual racegun on a skeletonized dowel holster, because true raceguns have no place anywhere a practical situation whatsoever. I really was trying to say "a gun that only a Jedi/Force-user could build by hand". In the same way that if anyone other than a Jedi/Force-user built a lightsaber it would be far less efficient and less damaging than one properly constructed and tuned with the aid of the Force, so too would it be with such a firearm, though certainly to a lesser extent.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Matthias777 wrote: |
This is a good thing. All too often, people throw something together in the EU (even C-canon, sometimes) without coming up with a plausible reason for it. |
I second that opinion. As good GMs, it's our responsibility to develop a rational universe, as well as an interesting one.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Matthias777 wrote: |
This is a good thing. All too often, people throw something together in the EU (even C-canon, sometimes) without coming up with a plausible reason for it. I could see Jedi doing it because of the purge. I could see Force-users doing it because they were from someplace in Wild Space that has yet to be discovered by the galaxy proper, and had never seen nor heard of a lightsaber. I could see Force-users rejecting the Jedi way for a multitude of reasonings (and, watching the prequels, I can easily imagine Jedi disagreeing with how the often foolish and contradictory Jedi establishment worked/thought/ran things enough to leave), and had rejected the lightsaber as a symbol of their separation from the Jedi establishment. Lastly, I can see Jedi or Force-users forced to use something other than lightsabers simply because they lacked the resources and/or training to build them (stranded somewhere that had basic to decent tech but no way off-planet, or no way out of system). I can think of a multitude of reasons, but you're right, there should be a very good one for whatever group/sect is outlined.
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 Here, here!
Now I've been thinking about this and have a few questions for how those who envision it would implement it:
1) Assuming all relevant skills are equal, who would win in a fight: a traditional Jedi or a blaster Jedi?
2) Assuming that the GM is using the RAW for lightsaber combat, how similar or different should blaster combat be from that power?
3) Is the blaster Jedi a pistol-only character (like a Star Wars version of a cowboy), or might he use rifles/carbines as his signature weapon? Repeaters? Vehicle blasters?
In my personal opinion, I could see the blaster Jedi using any form of personal blaster (and by "personal," I do not mean personal scale). A lot of cool archetypes come to mind:
For a pistol Jedi, I see characters like El Mariachi, the Cleric, or Doc Holiday. For a rifle Jedi, I think of a Star Wars equivalent of Legolas, or a very well-rounded rifleman able to fight effectively at close, medium and long ranges such as Bob Lee from "Shooter." I can even see a cool shotgun archetype similar to the Terminator (think of the scene in T2 on the bike), and the Lieutenant/Detective from the Jet Li flick "Contract Killer." |
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | Here, here!
Now I've been thinking about this and have a few questions for how those who envision it would implement it:
1) Assuming all relevant skills are equal, who would win in a fight: a traditional Jedi or a blaster Jedi? |
Lightsaber vs. blaster: Lightsaber wins. Blaster bolts can be deflected, even redirected back at the shooter, whereas a blaster cannot block a lightsaber blow, much less return in kind. Lightsaber vs. firearm, though...firearm has the edge, as bullets/pellets can only be sliced in half, not deflected/redirected, and firearms can be used at much longer ranges than lightsabers can. These assessments, of course, assume all other things are equal, which they never are.
| Naaman wrote: | | 2) Assuming that the GM is using the RAW for lightsaber combat, how similar or different should blaster combat be from that power? |
I'm not even sure I want to touch this one, considering how many threads there already are on Lightsaber Combat itself; clearly there are a multitude of people already dissatisfied with Lightsaber Combat's implementation (and I'm not saying I'm not one of them), much less a variation that covers other combat skills.
| Naaman wrote: | | 3) Is the blaster Jedi a pistol-only character (like a Star Wars version of a cowboy), or might he use rifles/carbines as his signature weapon? Repeaters? Vehicle blasters? |
I can see anything but vehicle blasters, I suppose. More common would be pistols, followed by carbines, rifles, and shotguns (I'm including firearms as well as blasters here). I would find fully automatic pistols slightly harder to swallow, but not out of the realm of impossibility, and submachine guns would be stretching it a bit. You'd probably have to type a full page of well-thought-out character background to get me to even consider a SAW/MG42/heavy repeater, though.
| Naaman wrote: | In my personal opinion, I could see the blaster Jedi using any form of personal blaster (and by "personal," I do not mean personal scale). A lot of cool archetypes come to mind:
For a pistol Jedi, I see characters like El Mariachi, the Cleric, or Doc Holiday. For a rifle Jedi, I think of a Star Wars equivalent of Legolas, or a very well-rounded rifleman able to fight effectively at close, medium and long ranges such as Bob Lee from "Shooter." I can even see a cool shotgun archetype similar to the Terminator (think of the scene in T2 on the bike), and the Lieutenant/Detective from the Jet Li flick "Contract Killer." |
I always figured Quigley was a Jedi of some sort...
Quigley - long range
Quigley - up close
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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I asked about RAW for lightsaber precisely because there are so many variants on these forums. Without knowing which one was in use, it would be hard to know what kind of power level we're talking about in order to develop a house rule Force power for it.
Off the top of my head, I could see it being a control/sense power, with sense being the skill that amplifies the attack rolls and dodge rolls, and control granting additional actions or increasing the range. As for the actual math, that much I'm not sure of yet (and it would probably depend on how lightsaber combat is used in the game). |
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi Blaster Pistol |
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| garhkal wrote: | Well. once used.
As for me, even when undercover, most jedi pcs i have seen just go with base level blaster pistols and rifles... few bother modifying them. |
Same.
I see no real reason why a Jedi would feel inclined to go for a special blaster.
| crmcneill wrote: | I use my own version of Lightsaber Combat that allows a Jedi to use a watered down version of the power with pretty much any personal weapon, so I could easily see a Jedi in hiding in the Rebellion era being a supernaturally quick marksman. ...
Thoughts? |
I haven't done this using standard d6 rules, though Combat Sense kinda confers this to a blaster wielding Jedi...
In my own Force system, however, the Jedi is not limited to augmented combat with a lightsaber; as in the EU material, Jedi can augment their general combat skills, heightened senses/reactions and greater strength... the lightsaber is just a tradition and has the added benefit of parrying blaster bolts and other nice properties of the energy blade.
With that in mind, the Force makes them a more skilled marksman, but likely would offer no benefit in damage (though melee and brawling attacks could be empowered).
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