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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps you take the novelization of the movie to be an official explanation, however I'm not satisfied.
Perhaps maybe he dreamed or had nightmares during the time in which his body was trapped, but the idea of a person actually being aware of being trapped would literally drive someone to the point of insanity. In my opinion, if a human being were to have their breathing slowed enough to enter into suspended hibernation, they would be for all purposes, asleep.
My understanding of the language as used in this case is that hibernation in this sense of context would equate to sleep, the brain being forced into a state of deep rest due to lack of oxygen, and whatever else sci-fi mumbo jumbo you want to place into it. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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And maybe Star Wars never actually happened, and we are all just part of George Lucas' imagination, as part of immensely detailed acid trip that he experienced while in college. 
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: New England
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | Anakin wrote: | | I read somewhere that the carbon encased person is completely conscious through the entire duration of the encasement... Tough s*** for the psyche! |
Han waking up doesn't support this, however; "Where am I?" wouldn't have been a question after spending a couple months as a decoration in Jabba's Palace. |
Well, the first thing in support of your statement would seem to be a couple lines before Han asks where he is. Leia, dressed as Boushh, does say Han's suffering hibernation (or carbon) sickness. The screenplay's description of Han seems to support this idea.
| Quote: | -----Boushh steps up to the case, studying Han, , then turns to the controls on the side of the coffin. He activates a series of swithes and slides the decarbonization lever. The case begins to emit a sound as the hard shell covering the contours of Han's face begins to melt away. The bounty hunter watches as Han's body is freed of its metallic coat and his forearms and hands, previously raised in reflexive protest, drop slackly to his side. His face muscles relax from their mask of horror. He appears quite dead.
-----Boushh's ugly helmet leans close to Han's face, listening for the breath of life. Nothing. He waits. Han's eyes pop open with a start, and he begins to shake. The bounty hunter steadies the staggering newborn.
BOUSHH: Just relax for a moment. You're free of the carbonite.
-----Han touches his face with his hand.
BOUSHH: Shhh. You have hibernation sickness
HAN: I can't see
BOUSHH: Your eyesight will return in time.
HAN: Where am i?
BOUSHH: Jabba's palace. |
The current Clone Wars series recently had an episode that had Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ashoka, and several clones frozen in carbonite. Now none of the characters are shown suffering from hibernation sickness. However, Obi-Wan does think at one point he is suffering from it as Ashoka disobeyed orders about not being present.
| Quote: | OBI-WAN KENOBI: I must have Carbon sickness, because I could swear that's Ahsoka.
ANAKIN SKYWALKER: [sighs] You're eyes are fine. It's Ahsoka's hearing that needs help. |
Now the difference seems to be in the episode it was maybe a few hours to a few days folks were in carbonite. Han was looking a month minimum I'd say. More likely several months. That would seem to suggest it takes more time for hibernation sickness to set in. Also, for all Han knew, Luke had arrived to rescue him, Leia, Chewie, and Threepio and had foiled Vader's plans. So he could have been on the Falcon speeding away from Cloud City for all he knew. Or he could have been taken away from Jabba's palace or even intercepted and never arrived there.
The Jedi and clones, on the other hand, expected to wake up on the transport shuttle on Lola Sayu once they got past the life form detector. So aside from Obi-Wan's seeing a padawan who wasn't supposed to be present and thinking he was suffering from hibernation sickness, there is no real sign that any of them suffered like Han did. They all very quickly recovered from being released from the carbonite, Han was just starting to recover his eyesight when they were taken to the Pit of Carkoon and his sight was well enough during the following battle with Jabba's forces for him to take part.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | And maybe Star Wars never actually happened, and we are all just part of George Lucas' imagination, as part of immensely detailed acid trip that he experienced while in college. |
Well, technically it didn't. I don't really see the point of saying that.
Your quote of the novel still doesn't argue as to his state of consciousness or otherwise. It seems to describe more of a person who died, and came back to life while seeing all of the visions of their life hit them simultaneously. As far as I can tell, that's describing him waking up, not actually describing how it was to be frozen.
As far as the original question... I haven't seen it written anywhere officially what the rules are for carbon freezing an individual. However, because I don't tend to "rules lawyer," I haven't memorized all the books. I'll look into it and get back to you. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I apologize for the double post.
Someone posted that Crisis on Cloud city adventure had info about it. I'll post it...
| Quote: | If the unit is activated while anyone is in the chamber, those within are instantly encased in a solid block of carbonite, suffering system shock trauma and a mortal wound. The chamber is set to freeze Tibanna gas, not human beings (See sidebar).
Carbon Freezing: Cloud City's carbon-freeze chambers are normally used to solidify and contain freshly mined Tibanna gas for export to other systems. The Tibanna gas is released into the chamber at the same instant as the liquid carbonite, instantly sealing the gas in a solid block. Carbonite is an extremely solid, durable alloy which provides more than adequate protection for the valuable Tibanna gas.
Carbon-freeze operations are primarily run by Ugnaughts, who work deep within the bowels of the floating city. The Ugnaughts have become somewhat expert at the process and have since learned how to adjust the carbon-freeze unit to accommodate other substances, including living organisms. In the latter case, the unit must be precisely adjusted so
that the living subject, whatever it may be, will be able to enter a state of hibernation, remaining alive and aware while encased in the carbonite block. |
So... according to Crisis in Cloud City, the being remains aware while encased. That indeed sucks. There are no other rules stated than that. I would venture that if the machine is properly calibrated for living organisms (Difficulty 18-19). Then the being only make something like a moderate stamina check to survive the freezing process. When they are removed, I would have a very difficult willpower roll required to forgo hibernation sickness. Or maybe have a sliding scale for the difficulty (1-3 months: moderate, 3-12: months difficult, 1-5 years: very difficult, 5+ years: heroic).
I'm curious, are you having one of your players frozen in carbonite in one of your games? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | Your quote of the novel still doesn't argue as to his state of consciousness or otherwise. It seems to describe more of a person who died, and came back to life while seeing all of the visions of their life hit them simultaneously. As far as I can tell, that's describing him waking up, not actually describing how it was to be frozen. |
Actually, yes it does. Merriam-Webster defines consciousness as "the quality or state of being aware, especially of something within oneself." Those three paragraphs lay out what Han Solo is aware of with regards to his experience of being frozen in carbonite. If he had no memories of being frozen in carbonite, he would've been unconscious. Strictly speaking, this is more like a state of semi-consciousness, as though stuck between the two. Essentially, he was conscious only of a single endless painful moment of being unable to move, breath, speak or do anything.
Seeing as how the novelization is part of the canon and that no other source looks at the carbon freezing process from the perspective of the person who is frozen, this is pretty definitive.
| Quote: | | As far as the original question... I haven't seen it written anywhere officially what the rules are for carbon freezing an individual. However, because I don't tend to "rules lawyer," I haven't memorized all the books. I'll look into it and get back to you. |
There aren't any, so all we have to work with are what we see in the canon.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: |
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I think you're grasping at one of many definitions of being conscious, another one being: "having the mental faculties fully active: He was conscious during the operation. "
I was addressing it from a logical standpoint, a person in hibernation is much like one who is put under for surgery. They are not aware of their surroundings.
Don't get me started on Canon, this hierarchy you stick to is your own choice. As far as I'm concerned, there are episodes 4-6 and the novels are just an author's interpretation of the universe.
Enough of the off topic discussion. My question still stands to the originator. Were you planning on freezing one of your players? |
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Anakin
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: |
Carbon Freezing: Cloud City's carbon-freeze chambers are normally used to solidify and contain freshly mined Tibanna gas for export to other systems. The Tibanna gas is released into the chamber at the same insta
I'm curious, are you having one of your players frozen in carbonite in one of your games? |
I did! He was frozen for six months, and I used kind of half the idea of being conscious throughout the duration. Otherwise I don't think anyone would be "playable" after carbon freezing of more than a week or so. Just study people who's been locked up in isolation cells for long periods of time. the personality more or less dissolves...
This character, a twi'lek bounty hunter, had some mental issues from the beginning, so I used the event to alter his personality somewhat. You could say he went through a personal crisis, which in this case opened up his mind. Shortly after being reawakened he was stranded on a low tech jungle world where he met a primitive tribe and became close friends with the shaman, and learned some new senses...
I can't recall exactly what game terms I used for the hibernation sickness or the mental issues, but I mainly used the lists of advantages and disadvantages, and gave him a few temporary and a few permanent modifications.
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