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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of dual lightsaber fighting:
| Quote: | Form X: Jar'Kai ( Two bladed )
Form X teaches the art of using two lightsabers in combat. While many Jedi learn the basics of that
form, only few ever master it. Form X has one primary weapon used solely for attack, while the second
blade can be used for defence or offence. Due to extensive training the Jedi used to using two
weapons at once, therefore the penalty for using an additional weapon is reduced to –2, instead of
-1D. However off-hand penalties still apply where necessary. Some species have more than two
hands or comparable limbs. In that case the –2 modifier applies to all limbs carrying a lightsaber. This
modifier counts only for Form X maneuvers. If the Jedi wants to use another form with two blades, the
standard –1D penalty applies. |
So you see, IF the character is ambidextrous, there is no 'off hand' penalty for using two weapons, or for wielding one-handed in either hand. According to this (taken from a fan-made compilation on the different Lightsaber Combat Forms) there is still a penalty if the character was not specifically made ambidextrous. Of course the GM is the final authority, and if they don't want to include such a penalty, it's their world. 
Plus, the character might NOT normally use multiple weapons, in which case they wouldn't have trained themselves to be able to do so equally well... |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| OtterJethro wrote: | | We don't play where there is an "off-hand" when using multiple wepons because we assume the have trained themselves to be ambedextrious. I mean if you are teaching and training to use a lightsaber and want to use 2, you would train both hands to be equally useful. |
There is also the possibility that not all races/species have a dominant hand. Some may be naturally ambidexterous or even omnidexterous.
And lets not forget droids. Building in a hand preference seems silly in those cases.
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: |
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so skyler, how much does it cost to be ambidextrous. or is it just something you write down on your sheet for free...
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Phalanks Balas
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 177
Location: Paris - France
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Matthias777 wrote: | | Why two penalties? Unless the -1D is a multiple action penalty (if you're picturing a scenario where someone is firing two weapons at once). |
I apply one difficulty level higher for actions with the left hand (assuming the character is a right-handed person).
Thus if a character has a weapon in each hand and fire with both, -1D apply for multiple actions and for the shoot with the weapon on the left hand, the difficulty level is raised.
For character with 5D or more in corresponding skill, this is not realy a high chalenge : Difficulty for a shoot at middle range with a blaster is moderate (11 -15). In the case of a double shoot, with the right weapon, character has to roll more than moderate score with 4D and for the left weapon roll more than difficult score (16-20) with 4D which is not impossible...
Now if this character takes time to aim (or has 6D in blaster), there is one-in-two chance of succeeding with the left weapon... I thing this is not too unfair.
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Generally, we don't deal with off-handedness. It wasn't covered in the rules, and rarely do we deal with situations where players are dual wielding or what have you, so it just seems like an unnecessary d20-style bogging down mechanic.
However, in the case of a dual wield issue, a -1D or +1 Diff level for the second hand seems appropriate.
Two handedness shouldn't be affected by an alteration in rules, as, I believe it's already been dealt with in the item's damage code and difficulty set. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | Two handedness shouldn't be affected by an alteration in rules, as, I believe it's already been dealt with in the item's damage code and difficulty set. |
Really? I'm not sure I've ever noticed that.
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Generally two handed weapons have higher damage codes and difficulties around the Moderate level. Many one handed weapons have lower damage codes and Easy difficulties. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, so what you're saying is that the weapon's own difficulty combined with the multi-action penalty should be sufficient?
On a slightly more tangential topic what about very large beings, should they be able to wield some two handed weapons in a single hand?
Also how do you weapon difficulties interact with parry rolls. Say for instance I'm using a weapon with a difficulty of 15 to use but my target splits their action between a parry and attack. If they only roll a 5 for their parry it seems a little unfair that I now only need 5 to hit them.
Especially if I'm wielding my newly devised and totally insane lightsaber nunchaku (Note I have never even seen a character, NPC wield or even consider wielding such a weapon I was just trying to think of a weapon with the highest possible difficulty to use)
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Interesting, so what you're saying is that the weapon's own difficulty combined with the multi-action penalty should be sufficient? |
There shouldn't be a MAP for using a two-handed weapon, unless your striking more than once or doing some other action. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | There shouldn't be a MAP for using a two-handed weapon, unless your striking more than once or doing some other action. |
Ah, I think we're talking at cross purposes I was talking about using a one handed weapon in your off hand and you were talking about using a two handed weapon.
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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hmm. the way i red it is you have to roll to use the weapon.
to attack a post, one must roll a 15 (in your example) or lets say 30 (in your other example) to even hit the post with your chosen weapon.
it takes x skill to use y weapon. if your opponent has x-z skill it is harder to use your weapon then it is to hit the opponent. if you cant use your weapon, you cant hit anything.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | | it takes x skill to use y weapon. if your opponent has x-z skill it is harder to use your weapon then it is to hit the opponent. if you cant use your weapon, you cant hit anything. |
I might be having a slow day today but I'm not following your example.
You're saying if the difficulty is too hight you can't even attempt to use the weapon regardless of what your opponant's dodge/parry roll might be?
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: |
Also how do you weapon difficulties interact with parry rolls. Say for instance I'm using a weapon with a difficulty of 15 to use but my target splits their action between a parry and attack. If they only roll a 5 for their parry it seems a little unfair that I now only need 5 to hit them. |
Yeah, it seems reasonable to me that a player would have to at least get the weapon's difficulty to hit a target, if the opponent's parry is lower, you shouldn't be able to hit if you don't meet the weapon difficulty.
However, I can see how it could work to use the parry or dodge roll rather than the weapon difficulty. For example, say the weapon has a Moderate difficuty and the person rolls a 5 on their parry, and you only roll at 9. By the rules you hit, despite missing the weapon difficulty. It *could* be interpretted that the opponent's effort to avoid being hit was so poor that they actually made it easier to hit them (it happens in real life, especially if the blocker is unskilled)... as such, the low weapon attack still hits.
It wouldn't be unreasonable, however, to reduce damage on an attack roll that doesn't meet the weapon's difficulty. Though ranged weapons would probably still cause the same damage, as their damage is not related to the wielder's efforts. |
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Ankhanu wrote: | | There shouldn't be a MAP for using a two-handed weapon, unless your striking more than once or doing some other action. |
Ah, I think we're talking at cross purposes I was talking about using a one handed weapon in your off hand and you were talking about using a two handed weapon. |
Yeah, seems that way 
Part of the post was about off-handedness, and that part was about two-handed. I perhaps addressed too many posts at once  |
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | vong wrote: | | it takes x skill to use y weapon. if your opponent has x-z skill it is harder to use your weapon then it is to hit the opponent. if you cant use your weapon, you cant hit anything. |
I might be having a slow day today but I'm not following your example.
You're saying if the difficulty is too hight you can't even attempt to use the weapon regardless of what your opponant's dodge/parry roll might be? |
Exactly. to use numbers you wrote. you need at least 15 to use the weapon, so you automatically hit anything whose dodge value of 14(or less) if you can use the weapon.
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