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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | Rerun941 wrote: | | "Sniping" and "Shooting" are essentially the same actions (pull the trigger), but yet are two completely different activities. |
as I understand it, A normal marksman with all the advantages you listed still wouldn't be able to make the massive 800-1000 yard shots a sniper can sometimes pull off. Most humans, even with a lifetime of practice just can't pull off so perfect a trigger pull. Remember in Shooter when the old guy feels Mark Wahlberg's fingers and can tell he's one of a handfull of guys who could make a 1 mile shot? That's not entirely based in fiction. |
No, but an RPG is. In the real world, there are lots of reasons why we aren't all ace pilots, virtuoso musicians, and crack shots. In the RPG it all boils down to spending CPs.
And regarding the 1 mile shot, not all snipers can pull that off either. Such shots are a combination of skill, preparation, circumstances, and luck. I don't think rerun is saying that snipers are not good shots, just that it takes more than being a good shot to be a sniper. For instance, a sniper has to use a lot a camoflague skills to avoid being detected, and then wait for hours or even days for the right shot. Now there are guys ouyt there with 10D in firearms who might not make good snipers. |
I was just saying that 5D is too low for a sniper. I think my old PC who had 7D blaster was at the bottom end of the sniper spectrum. He was not one of the few who could make a mile shot.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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My point is that for target shooting there seems to be enough time for preparation which would allow easier hitting at long range. So something like marksman 3d, sharpshooter 4d, expert 5d might work since they would each get the +1d bonus on each shot.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Shouldnt sniping be a specialization, or even and advanced skill?
Remember that having a high Blaster skill means that you are very proficient with a very wide spectrum of weapons, from pistols to heavy 'machine guns'. Even though I have no doubt a real world sniper could operate a machine gun (well, most) but that doesnt mean he will be very good at it because of his sniping skills.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Shouldnt sniping be a specialization, or even and advanced skill?
Remember that having a high Blaster skill means that you are very proficient with a very wide spectrum of weapons, from pistols to heavy 'machine guns'. Even though I have no doubt a real world sniper could operate a machine gun (well, most) but that doesnt mean he will be very good at it because of his sniping skills. |
I 'came up with' Imperial Assassins (well, lets say they were heavily influenced by the 40K Assassins) one which is more or less a very elite sniper (with the rifle to boost). My thoughts was that these assassins were recruited from the elite of the Storm Commandos. Given that Storm Commandos have the very modest Blaster skill of 7D I was faced with the problem of these assassins being almost as good as Boba Fett at shooting. Instead I figured that these elite Storm Commandos were recognized early in their training and after that focused on their own skills exclusively. That meant that Blaster stayed at a 'modest' 6D, while their Sniping skill were at 9D.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Shouldn't sniping be a specialization, or even and advanced skill?
Remember that having a high Blaster skill means that you are very proficient with a very wide spectrum of weapons, from pistols to heavy 'machine guns'. Even though I have no doubt a real world sniper could operate a machine gun (well, most) but that doesnt mean he will be very good at it because of his sniping skills. |
I'm comfortable with it being an advanced skill. That way it could apply to blasters, firearms, and maybe even some other weapons. It has always irritated me when some TV show writer expects me to believe someone is a great handgun shooter just because they're a great sniper. Tiger woods is a great golfer, but don't expect me to believe he's all that good at cricket, just because he's used to swinging sticks!
As a side note, Vietnam Sniper Carlos Hathcock used an M2 .50 caliber machine gun mounted with a scope as an alternate weapon to his .30-06. So, I'd say snipers can use machine guns.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | As a side note, Vietnam Sniper Carlos Hathcock used an M2 .50 caliber machine gun mounted with a scope as an alternate weapon to his .30-06. So, I'd say snipers can use machine guns. |
He fired it single shot though. Kind of like a Barrett precursor. |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: |
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True, but if you can hit with 1 bullet at 600 yds, you can probably hit with 100 at 200 yds.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Simo Häyhä seems to have been able to use both a sniper rifle and a machine gun.
That said he also does seem to have been one of the best snipers in the entire world.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | True, but if you can hit with 1 bullet at 600 yds, you can probably hit with 100 at 200 yds. |
Maybe, but it's two distinct skill sets. With one, you are holding your body in tight control, minimizing any movement that might throw off the precise requirement of the shot, even to the point of shooting between heartbeats so that your pulse doesn't cause your finger to twitch while pulling the trigger. With a machinegun, you're having to use brute force to steady the gun against repetitive recoil to keep it aimed at a target. The idea behind a machinegun is not to hit your target with all 100 rounds fired (although that would be ideal), but to fill the space around the target with bullets to increase the likelihood that a handful of shots actually hit. The difference is the epitome of quality vs. quantity.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | I suspect that you can either get the skill level per population to work or you can get the skill level for military qualifying exams to work, but not both. We should remember that most humans are likely to be more accurate on a range even with pop up targets etc. than they are in real combat when the opponent might be or even is shooting back. . |
Some truth there, but it extends too other walks of life. Basically the five point difficluty bands and the skill table from RAW just dont give much room to work with. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: |
I was just saying that 5D is too low for a sniper. I think my old PC who had 7D blaster was at the bottom end of the sniper spectrum. He was not one of the few who could make a mile shot. |
1) 7D minimum is insane. Basically, according to the RAW, we'd be hard pressed to find someone skilled enough in a sector of space.
As for making the "mile shot", sure you 7D guy could do it. Under the right conditions, with the right equipment, with some luck. Keep in mind, there aren't any guys out there with a history of multiple confirmed kills at a mile. It happens so infrequently as to fall within the range of statistical uncertainty.
Most snipers wouldn't want to take that kind of shot in the first place, and would rather move in closer for a better shot.
One problem I have with this level of skill inflation is that if guys with this level of training are 7D+, we'd have to put fighter pilotins in 10D to start and Doctors at 15D. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Shouldnt sniping be a specialization, or even and advanced skill?
Remember that having a high Blaster skill means that you are very proficient with a very wide spectrum of weapons, from pistols to heavy 'machine guns'. Even though I have no doubt a real world sniper could operate a machine gun (well, most) but that doesnt mean he will be very good at it because of his sniping skills. |
For most of my snipers i go
(FIREARMS BASED)
Firearms, 4d (S) Sniper rifle, 6d+1 for regular
5d+1/7d+2 for veteran
6d+2/9d for expert.. a rare few are higher than that...
Blasters i go up 1d.
| Quote: | | I'm comfortable with it being an advanced skill. That way it could apply to blasters, firearms, and maybe even some other weapons. |
Sort of
(A) Sniping.
This skill is used when using any ranged weapon with single shot capacity to make those sniping shots at long range. it allows one to gauge proper distance drop, range/windage changes for scopes and other things.
Requires both Firearms and Blaster of 5d.
This skill allows one using it to add a 4th range spectrum, Very long range (add 50% to long so a Blaster rifle of 200 max range would become 300 for VL), with a difficulty of very difficult (25) base +
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | As a side note, Vietnam Sniper Carlos Hathcock used an M2 .50 caliber machine gun mounted with a scope as an alternate weapon to his .30-06. So, I'd say snipers can use machine guns. |
But hes not actually using it as a machine gun, in its intended role.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | (A) Sniping.
This skill is used when using any ranged weapon with single shot capacity to make those sniping shots at long range. it allows one to gauge proper distance drop, range/windage changes for scopes and other things.
Requires both Firearms and Blaster of 5d.
This skill allows one using it to add a 4th range spectrum, Very long range (add 50% to long so a Blaster rifle of 200 max range would become 300 for VL), with a difficulty of very difficult (25) base + |
I like this. The Firearms prerequisite is only to use (A) Sniping with a gun right? You can get the skill even if you only have Blaster 5D+?
Id increase the Extreme range to double long for specifically made sniping weapons. For a normal blaster rifle with sniping scope +50% will be fine. This keeps max range for normal blaster rifles within reasonable limits while making a sniper with a sniping weapon (GMs call) a truly fearsome opponent.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe some one should start a thread for sniper(s)? |
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