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SaintBryan Cadet
Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 12
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: Brawling under STR is dumb |
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so. someone remind me why Brawling is a strength skill, wheras brawling parry, melee and melee parry are all under dex.
just a couple days ago, I switched brawling over to a dex skill for my group. I feel it makes a lot more sense because just because youre really strong doesnt necessarily make you good at hitting things. it just means you pack more punch.
The more I think about it the more it makes sense.
so. why?
Did WEG stick it under STR cause they thought there were too few STR skills already and it could use some more?
:?: :?: :?: |
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Son of Fire Captain
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 554 Location: Rose City Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:01 am Post subject: |
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I think it was strictly for game balance.
Which is a nice way of saying that the strength stat have very little under its jurisdiction. _________________ "My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Ray Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 1743 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Dexterity is an already over-skilled area... And over-important as all the basic attack skills are there.
That being said, from my personal experience, most "Brawling" is done through Brute Strength (The more Dexteritous types require *ALOT* of training), and Parrying is more of a Dexterity thing. Makes sense from that angle. |
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cheshire Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Posts: 4847
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Just as kind of a rule of thumb think about two guys getting ready to fight. Let's say you have a 6'5" 250 lb. guy, all muscle vs. me (a 6'3" 145 lb. twig boy). Who would you put your money on? Assuming that I have no specialized training in martial arts, boxing, etc. if the big guy ever gets ahold of me, I'm pretty well toast. Fortunately, I am a pretty fast guy and I'm hard to get ahold of (enter dexterity).
I'm not saying that the skill is just like real life, but at the same time it's not completely unreasonable. |
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Rathe Ehtar Commander
Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 440 Location: Vacaville, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Right. Avoiding the hits is a speed thing, ie Dexterity, while dishing and taking hits is about brute force. Strength is not just an area of macho-ness, it covers many physical skills, acrobatics, gymnastics (if you dig that sort of thing), climbing, jumping, stamina, lifting, and of course brawling. Many other games use strength as the source of the brawling skill, White Wolf games and D&D to name a few. More than game balance, I think it was common sense that brawling is a strength skill. _________________ "I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings." -Max Payne
"I don't buy that cluck like a dog, bark like a chicken stuff." -Col. Jack O'Neill |
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Esoomian High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. Strength plays a very important roll in Brawling however if you wanted to spar where the objective is to contact the sparing partner without doing any damage that would be a dex skill.
It's much harder to hit someone who is actively trying to avoid it when you cannot put all your muscle/weight behind your attempts.
Also if you have more strength/mass than someone else (assuming they are not well trained and thats where brawling parry comes into it) you can sometimes 'strike through' someones defences just through the virtue of your superior strength/mass.
Dex plays a part but Strength isn't just for the causing of damage |
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Son of Fire Captain
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 554 Location: Rose City Canada
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Don’t forget that they wanted a very simple and streamlined system. And having too many stats, skills or what-have-you it kind of defeats the purpose. _________________ "My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Volar the Healer Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 664 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think brawling DOES belong under strength. In a fist fight between brawlers, the stronger usually wins. (Being a retired US Marine, I've seen one or two brawls. )
Now a martial artist fights with his skill and I think his damage should be related to his skill, not his strength. But brawlers don't train up any skills. They just...well...brawl. _________________ Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace
Last edited by Volar the Healer on Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ray Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 1743 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hey! There's a grand tradition in my Heritidge of Martial Arts.
The Irish "Way of the Drunken Fist" Martial Arts.
First rule... Cheat, and get yourself a wackin' stick!!! Preferably one that's nice and spiny! |
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Volar the Healer Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 664 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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While I honour the great Irish tradition of brawling, I have to point out once you pick up a stick you are no longer brawling under the Star Wars RPG rules. You are now using the melee combat skill. _________________ Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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Hellstorm Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 253 Location: Montreal, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Ray wrote: | Hey! There's a grand tradition in my Heritidge of Martial Arts.
The Irish "Way of the Drunken Fist" Martial Arts.
First rule... Cheat, and get yourself a wackin' stick!!! Preferably one that's nice and spiny! |
Hey, wait a second, I'm also Irish.So isin't that getting a bottle and introducing it firmly but politelly to your friend face instead of a stick.
I mean if I pick up a stick I'd have to put down the Beer bottle and the whiskey bottle 8) _________________ Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Son of Fire Captain
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 554 Location: Rose City Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ah…bottles to the head.
It brings back memories, both in the giving and receiving.
But being Scottish I would take a claymore over a stick any day… if I could wield the damn thing. _________________ "My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Esoomian High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Being Irish I have to say that the tradition of hand(foot/knee/barstool) to groin combat is a ancient and respected tradition.
With that in mind just because holding a stick doesn't stop you trying to hit someone with your hand/head/elbow/knee/foot in fact sometimes the stick (bottle/claymore/barstool) doesn't even need to connect. But perhaps that tradition isn't widespread
I certainly can't see a starwars character with the brawling specialization Hand to groin combat |
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Son of Fire Captain
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 554 Location: Rose City Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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That's too easy. _________________ "My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Vartax Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 Oct 2003 Posts: 203 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Brawling specializations (I think) comfortably fall under STR. Take Martial Arts for one. Yes it does pay to be quick, and when my wife did Martial Arts there were young kids under the age of 8 that were black belts. Now just saying they knew how to use what they learned doesn't strike too much fear in me. All I would need is one solid hit and it's over. But it's the strength behind the hits and blocks that make it powerful. Boxing is the other. I know jack about boxing besides the Rocky instruction, but I imagine that just being fast, doesn't out do having the power behind the quickness. |
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