| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Naaman wrote: | | TO ME, it seems that walkers (especially the bipedal variety) work best in conjunction with infantry. Wherever the infantry are operating, the walkers can bring firepower that is not man-portable. |
I tend to agree, at least for some walkers. The AT-ST is pretty clearly a mobile heavy weapons platform with its own built-in high ground. It works well so long as it has infantry on the ground to screen for pitfalls and the like. Of course, the traps that appeared to work best at Endor were the ones that weren't directly in the walker's path, and it would make sense for said walker to have some sort of ground scanning sensors to identify obvious traps like covered pits and the like. I've even postulated elsewhere that walkers may actually be droids writ large, with a droid brain handling the actual details of moving the legs, with the pilot providing oversight and direction.
| Quote: | | If mobility is a concern, I would modify them with shield generators or some such, in order to maximize their opportunity to maintain fire superiority. |
I've fitted some of my ship stats with Stealth Shields that can function in either a protective or concealing mode. Fitting them to walkers wouldn't be hard, especially if the Alliance is only fielding these walkers in small numbers.
| Quote: | | In effect, intelligence reports would dictate whether walkers are a viable solution to the tactical problem. They are no good against cloud cars or air speeders (or TIE fighters, for that matter), but against other walkers, troop transports, fortified positions, and masses of infantry, they may be quite valuable. |
Exactly this. Putting walkers out on open steppes or deserts against an enemy who will always be able to (eventually) bring enough force to bear to crush them is stupid. Instead, use walkers in situations that play to their strengths
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ray wrote: | | The major issue about Walkers is maintenance. Time and parts required for them. Especially as complex a Walker as the AT-TE or the AT-OT. |
Is it? The RAW is rather vague about vehicle maintenance, apart from a few vague mentions in fluff write-ups. It'd be great if there was an actual mechanic for it, but maintenance down time is ultimately subordinate to the story; if the walker needs to be operable for the purposes of the plot, then it is; if not, then it's not.
AT-RTs have some interesting possibilities for high-tech Dragoon units, especially combined with what I mentioned here. What if an AT-RT is more like a droid with a seat than a true vehicle? As in, what if there's a basic 4th Degree droid intelligence running the walker's body? A trooper could ride an AT-RT into battle, dismount and fight on foot, with the AT-RT able to withdraw on its own or even fight independently of the trooper.
And the battery issues aren't insurmountable either; portable power generators are pretty common, or they can be incorporated into a maintenance pod on an AT-OT.
| Quote: | | "In Dangerous Ground, Fight"-type thing, eh? |
I'm unsure of the reference, but the Alliance would definitely try to choose a battlefield that works to their strengths.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | If the enemy can't locate them, HOW will they be good at fighting back?? |
g, the entire strategy of the Rebel Alliance is to hit the Empire where they can, then deny them targets to hit back at. This would just be a variation on that theme. The idea is to deploy walkers into environments where they can strike at Imperial assets, then use said environment to hide from Imperial counter attacks. It could be massive forests or jungles, or rugged mountains with huge, elaborate canyon complexes, or even crystal labyrinths spanning hundreds or thousands of kilometers. Anything you want that fits the story, so long as it provides concealment to the walkers, and the local forces either can't or won't destroy, or at the very least doing so would require massive overkill. |
But as a military guy, if the enemy can't fire back, cause the forest/jungle you are in, is too 'thick/canyons are too elaborate etc', then by logic YOU shouldn't be able to shoot out of it.. Unless you're near the edge of it.. In which case, if you are near the edge, the enemy should be able to shoot back..
And if its thick enough to stop being 'located', how then will the walkers move around?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | But as a military guy, if the enemy can't fire back, cause the forest/jungle you are in, is too 'thick/canyons are too elaborate etc', then by logic YOU shouldn't be able to shoot out of it.. Unless you're near the edge of it.. In which case, if you are near the edge, the enemy should be able to shoot back.. |
So you use scouts to identify good locations from which the shooter-walkers can fire from ambush. You also identify secondary and tertiary firing locations, so that the walkers can move from point to point. And then identify fallback locations that allow the walkers to retreat to firing positions that allow them to engage any enemies that assault and overrun the initial firing positions. And then you use combat engineers to prep escape routes by removing obstacles that would impede the walkers, as well as arranging traps like minefields and such to slow down any pursuit. Rinse, repeat, until any attempt to penetrate too deep into the terrain becomes a war of attrition.
| Quote: | | And if its thick enough to stop being 'located', how then will the walkers move around? |
If it's just barely too thick, you use combat engineers to thin out terrain so that it's more usable. Or you use smaller walkers, like the AT-AV I mentioned in the first post. The whole point is that the walkers would only be deployed in terrain that works in their favor; if the cover is too thick and crowded for the walkers to maneuver in, then obviously they wouldn't be deployed there.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Quote: | | "In Dangerous Ground, Fight"-type thing, eh? |
I'm unsure of the reference, but the Alliance would definitely try to choose a battlefield that works to their strengths. |
Sun Tzu's "Art of War", Chapter 11. Dangerous Ground is areas you can't quickly escape from, and so your army must fight.
A Star Wars example is Hoth, which demonstrated the actual abilities of the Stormtroopers as shock troopers, combined with the issues the Rebellion has with a standard-style combat situation. But they could only escape by ship, and had to have time to load the ships and then get out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ray wrote: | | Sun Tzu's "Art of War", Chapter 11. Dangerous Ground is areas you can't quickly escape from, and so your army must fight. |
Ah. Yes, to a degree. The thing is, for walkers in maneuver warfare against repulsortanks, most ground is going to be dangerous, as the repulsorcraft will always have the speed to outrun/outflank/out-anything walkers. As such, walkers are only going to be useful in certain circumstances, like air assault (as mentioned above by Naaman) or in terrain conditions that negate the maneuverability and speed advantages held by repulsorlifts.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
If it's just barely too thick, you use combat engineers to thin out terrain so that it's more usable. Or you use smaller walkers, like the AT-AV I mentioned in the first post. The whole point is that the walkers would only be deployed in terrain that works in their favor; if the cover is too thick and crowded for the walkers to maneuver in, then obviously they wouldn't be deployed there. |
If you're thinning out the terrain to make movement easier, that by logic, would also make it easier for enemies to scan/spot you..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | If you're thinning out the terrain to make movement easier, that by logic, would also make it easier for enemies to scan/spot you.. |
Depends where you're doing the thinning. If all that's going on is the removal of select obstacles to facilitate rapid redeployment / withdrawal of the walkers, while leaving the vast majority of the terrain intact, it'll still provide cover. This isn't clear-cutting; it's surgery. The vast majority of the "cover" will still be there.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Forceally
Commodore
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1049
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IIRC, in The Thrawn Trilogy SB, in the writeup og the AT-PT, it hinted that the New Republic finding a bunch of them in the Katana fleet might hint at a return of these walkers, or perhaps a modernized model. So we have that option in the Legends theme.
In Canon theme, in one of those books set between TLJ and TROS, Rose found a prototype model of some new First Order or Imperial walker. So there's that option. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Forceally wrote: | | IIRC, in The Thrawn Trilogy SB, in the write-up of the AT-PT, it hinted that the New Republic finding a bunch of them in the Katana fleet might hint at a return of these walkers, or perhaps a modernized model. So we have that option in the Legends theme. |
I was somewhat disappointed that the AT-PT was introduced as a rare model pretty much just for the Katana Fleet, especially when it works pretty well as a heavy weapons support platform alongside AT-RTs.
Actually, now that I think about it, I did re-stat the AT-PT as the All-Terrain Patrol Transport. It occurs to me that I could ret-con the AT-PT as a light-armament variant of a more common personal walker with heavier weapons, like maybe a laser cannon dorsal turret...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jtanzer
Lieutenant
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 75
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm in agreement with garhkal on this one. Walkers are loud, slow, bulky, and difficult to maintain. This doesn't fit Alliance strategy. The Alliance depends on speed and stealth to maintain surprise. Walkers are unable to move quickly and hide sufficiently to maintain the advantage. Perun in this video notes that small nations with a limited budget often don't have a choice on how to spend their money, although here he shows that while a small force doesn't get a lot of choice in how it spends it's money, the choices it does have can prove significant enough to at least partially offset it's opponents' advantages.
In this instance, walkers are a luxury that the Alliance simply cannot afford, in any category you care to name. By contrast, repulsorlift vehicles converted into technicals are perfect for Alliance hit-and-run attacks. Any type of terrain a walker can cross, a repulsorlift vehicle can traverse faster, while also allowing access to mountain slopes and ridges that would be impassable to walkers. Additionally, repulsorlift vehicles are (while still more expensive than ground cars) significantly cheaper to procure and sustain than walkers, while also being lower profile (thus allowing them to access caves, and underground structures for concealment).
_________________
The GM runs a living setting. Players unstick their own s***. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Forceally wrote: | | IIRC, in The Thrawn Trilogy SB, in the write-up of the AT-PT, it hinted that the New Republic finding a bunch of them in the Katana fleet might hint at a return of these walkers, or perhaps a modernized model. So we have that option in the Legends theme. |
I was somewhat disappointed that the AT-PT was introduced as a rare model pretty much just for the Katana Fleet, especially when it works pretty well as a heavy weapons support platform alongside AT-RTs.
Actually, now that I think about it, I did re-stat the AT-PT as the All-Terrain Patrol Transport. It occurs to me that I could ret-con the AT-PT as a light-armament variant of a more common personal walker with heavier weapons, like maybe a laser cannon dorsal turret... |
That makes me wonder, is the AT-RT, based ON the AT-PT, or the other way around??
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1829
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wuold think most light walkers would indeed fit the Rebel Alliance Warfare Doctrine.
The Rebel alliance grew and had quite significant forces, a war can not be won by starfithers and destroying a death star alone, nor small scale raiding operations, winning the war requires a significant standing ground force and fleet.
As to rapid movement raiding like the Rebels are known for, we have the AT-RT and AT-PT models, both "only" 3 Meter tall
and fast, lightly but still well armed and something that would be somewhat available in GAR Arsenals around the galaxy.
Like most walkers these are actually quite moidifiable vehicles and can be fitted to serve many roles.
We know the rebels use light repulsorlift crafts often the same type as the empire though the rebels due to their situation often need to modify and even jury rig these inperial models, but they are used by both factions.
We see this in several star ship models, the corellian corvette is an example, same is the Nebulon-B model.
I can easily see the lighter walker models being an asset in rapid maneuver raids and battles.
larger Walkers, like the AT-ST series, we know come with different weaponry from misslle patforms to scout raiders. I can see thses playing a armored support role with the rebel alliance, acting as fire support for other light walker units.
Light and Medium units and combined warfare of maneuver is perfect for light walkers with medium walker support.
As to meintenance I would thin the rebels would do just as good as they do with the fighters and other vehicles/ships. So I do not belive a rebel unit uising walkers will suffer any more issues with meintenace than any rebale unit operating starfighters.
@garhkal I belive they are really the same platform, they have the sma e height and other than the PT enclosed cockpit, much the overall size.
I belive it is similar in modularity as the AT-ST series, where we have several types, mostly varying in armamnet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jtanzer wrote: | | I'm in agreement with garhkal on this one. |
All of these points have been addressed previously in this topic. While walkers certainly won’t be the vehicle of choice, there will be specific environments where they will be preferable. On top of that, since the Alliance doesn’t have access to normal procurement processes, they will likely have to make do with old military surplus, such as Clone Wars era vehicles like the AT-TE, -AP, -OT and -AV (or -XT, if you prefer).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Alliance Walker Corps |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | ...Thoughts? ...All of these points have been addressed previously in this topic... |
I see I never chimed in on this topic...
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | While walkers certainly won’t be the vehicle of choice, there will be specific environments where they will be preferable. |
WEG didn't demonstrate this 'specific environments' concept very well. But thankfully you and your stats can capture it better.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | On top of that, since the Alliance doesn’t have access to normal procurement processes, they will likely have to make do with old military surplus, such as Clone Wars era vehicles like the AT-TE, -AP, -OT and -AV (or -XT, if you prefer). |
I quite agree with the basic premise that Rebels would repurpose Clone Wars era vehicles. Even in the classic era, Republic and Separatist military surplus would likely still be used by local governments all over the galaxy, at least in the outer regions. Many less important systems in the galaxy wouldn't have the benefit of Imperial protection so would be on their own for defending themselves. The Alliance would have more access to these vehicles. I feel the Alliance would even repurpose captured Imperial vehicles if they could crew and maintain them. The Alliance is so desperate for resources so they would take whatever they can get.
Now the Alliance having a fully operational "Walker Corps" – I have difficulty seeing that. If anything, I can see maybe having something they might call a "Walker Corps" on paper, but in reality it is just a rag-tag collection of vehicles of many different models (in various states of maintenance, repair, and modification) that tend not to see major engagements as a whole but are instead loaned out on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis for specific missions, most of the time not making it back from those. Even calling it the "Alliance Walker Corps" may be something of a sarcastic joke in the Rebellion, that some loveably cranky officer in charge of it takes way too seriously.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
