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N00b question on basic rules
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Michelangelo
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:41 pm    Post subject: N00b question on basic rules Reply with quote

Hello all, I am new to role playing and Star Wars D6. I GMed a game(Rebel Breakout from the v.1 rule book) for my kids yesterday and we had fun but there were a couple points where I wasn’t sure how to apply the rules.

- toward the end there was a part where 12 NPC stormtroopers appear and start shooting again the PCs. The scenario says they hide behind corners and shoot at whatever PCs they see. Does this mean each round I roll shots for each of the NPCs? This seems like a lot of rolling and would drag down the cinematic, fast paced aspect of the game. Is it better to roll like once for the entire group? Or decide which NPCs are “hiding” and which are shooting? In general, what is the best way to handle large groups of NPCs?

- there were a few times where it said the PCs should do technical rolls to open doors and they kept failing, so I just had them keep rolling until they succeeded. Is this how it normally works? Or should there be some limit to how much you can try something or penalty for failure?

- some of my PCs definitely would have died if I had been more strict about wounds and damage. Do wounds really stack such that if you get wounded a second time you are incapacitated and then if you get wounded a third time you are mortally wounded?

Thanks for any help on these or general rule tips you can provide!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: N00b question on basic rules Reply with quote

Michelangelo wrote:
I GMed a game(Rebel Breakout from the v.1 rule book) for my kids yesterday and we had fun but there were a couple points where I wasn’t sure how to apply the rules.

...some of my PCs definitely would have died if I had been more strict about wounds and damage. Do wounds really stack such that if you get wounded a second time you are incapacitated and then if you get wounded a third time you are mortally wounded?

Hello there, Michelangelo. Welcome to the Pit!

This is 1e adventure and the wound progression you describe seems to be from 1e, but 2eR&E rules are the default rules being discussed unless specified or obvious from context. Just to be clear, are you are asking about 1e or 2e rules? It does make a difference in some cases.
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Michelangelo
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: N00b question on basic rules Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Michelangelo wrote:
I GMed a game(Rebel Breakout from the v.1 rule book) for my kids yesterday and we had fun but there were a couple points where I wasn’t sure how to apply the rules.

...some of my PCs definitely would have died if I had been more strict about wounds and damage. Do wounds really stack such that if you get wounded a second time you are incapacitated and then if you get wounded a third time you are mortally wounded?

Hello there, Michelangelo. Welcome to the Pit!

This is 1e adventure and the wound progression you describe seems to be from 1e, but 2eR&E rules are the default rules being discussed unless specified or obvious from context. Just to be clear, are you are asking about 1e or 2e rules? It does make a difference in some cases.


Hi Whill, thanks! And yeah these are 1e questions - I was using the sample scenario from the 1e book. That’s the only book I have so I kind of wanted to master the mechanics from those rules before branching out into subsequent editions.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: N00b question on basic rules Reply with quote

I figured you were running 1e but I didn't know if there might be a 2e adaptation of that adventure out there that you might be running, so I just wanted to confirm. I moved this thread to the dedicated 1e forum.

See STAR WARS FIRST EDITION: A LOVE STORY. This has a lot of tutorials and how-to's for 1e that you may find useful. (The 5th reply in that deals with damage.)

Michelangelo wrote:
- toward the end there was a part where 12 NPC stormtroopers appear and start shooting again the PCs. The scenario says they hide behind corners and shoot at whatever PCs they see. Does this mean each round I roll shots for each of the NPCs? This seems like a lot of rolling and would drag down the cinematic, fast paced aspect of the game. Is it better to roll like once for the entire group? Or decide which NPCs are “hiding” and which are shooting? In general, what is the best way to handle large groups of NPCs?

Taking on 12 stormtroopers all at once is very deadly for a smaller group of new PCs, so my suggestion is alter the numbers of NPCs according to your group. I probably wouldn't have had more than one stormtrooper per PC.

And yes, besides the deadliness, that is a lot of dice rolling. The 1e core rules do not include any option for reducing rolls I can think of. Later versions of the rules have options for combining actions, where groups of troopers could have a single to-hit and a single damage roll with bonuses do the coordination.

See below for more on combat being more cinematic.

Quote:
- there were a few times where it said the PCs should do technical rolls to open doors and they kept failing, so I just had them keep rolling until they succeeded. Is this how it normally works? Or should there be some limit to how much you can try something or penalty for failure?

That depends on what it is, the situation, and how difficult you want it to be. If PCs are trying to slice into a computer system, multiple failures could lock out the system or even set-off a silent alarm somewhere. If they are just trying to get a blast door open in a low security facility, then maybe they could keep trying until they succeed.

Quote:
- some of my PCs definitely would have died if I had been more strict about wounds and damage. Do wounds really stack such that if you get wounded a second time you are incapacitated and then if you get wounded a third time you are mortally wounded?

Yes, a wounded character who is wounded again is incapacitated. An incapacitated character that is wounded again is mortally wounded, but that almost never happens because incapacitated characters fall unconscious so they are out of the fight - Most bad guys won't keep shooting at you once you are down (at least in my SWU). If the whole party is incapacitated, they may wake up healed but in a prison cell. If one member of the party is incapacitated while the fight is still going on, then the rest have to win or at least escape while carrying an unconscious character.

Quote:
I am new to role playing and Star Wars D6... I was using the sample scenario from the 1e book. That’s the only book I have so I kind of wanted to master the mechanics from those rules before branching out into subsequent editions.

I started with the 1e core in the 80s, when that and the 1e sourcebook were the only two products that existed for the game. I updated to each new sub-edition (two more for 1e and two for 2e) as they each came out.

I know the 1e core is the only book you have right now but I just wanted to throw out that 1e is not the easiest edition in every aspect, so mastering 1e is not really necessary before moving on to other editions. Star Wars 1e is the first proper D6 game, and it very much represents 'the first stab at it.' As you found out, a game design choice was made to have no-initiative, but the initial combat system evolved with each sub-edition and they never really got it right until 2e R&E. Combat is actually much better in 2e R&E, and I am convinced that if they had thought of it back during the 1e core, they would have implemented it back then.

They added initiative back to combat in the first 2e core but it was still wonky because it maintained some vestiges of 1e combat. They totally fixed combat in the second 2e core by eliminating action and reaction declaration, so on your first turn in a round you declare how many actions you are taking that round for the multiple action penalty calculation, and then no actions and reactions are declared until they are rolled (and they all happen as they are rolled). There is less metagaming and no rolls are wasted. Combat got faster and more cinematic. Other aspects of the game definitely got more complex over time but combat actually got easier in 2e R&E.

I think that a GM could import the 2E R&E combat round and reaction rules into 1e, and that would make it an easier game than any 1e sub-edition. Click here to see the combat rounds for each edition side by side.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: N00b question on basic rules Reply with quote

Michelangelo wrote:

- toward the end there was a part where 12 NPC stormtroopers appear and start shooting again the PCs. The scenario says they hide behind corners and shoot at whatever PCs they see. Does this mean each round I roll shots for each of the NPCs? This seems like a lot of rolling and would drag down the cinematic, fast paced aspect of the game. Is it better to roll like once for the entire group? Or decide which NPCs are “hiding” and which are shooting? In general, what is the best way to handle large groups of NPCs?


Have them follow military protocol. SIX hide/move up, six shoot.. Then the other six hide, and the first six shoot..

Michelangelo wrote:

- there were a few times where it said the PCs should do technical rolls to open doors and they kept failing, so I just had them keep rolling until they succeeded. Is this how it normally works? Or should there be some limit to how much you can try something or penalty for failure?


It does take time. 1st roll is 2 rounds. Then two minutes, then 2 hours.. ANd on and on.. So time IS a limiter.. You could have it if they fail the first, they can have someone ELSE try, but at a penalty.

If they are NOT In a time crunch, they can 'take their time (double the amount of time it takes gaining a d to their roll, try to coordinate (2 folks work at the same time to open it) gaining another D.

Michelangelo wrote:

- some of my PCs definitely would have died if I had been more strict about wounds and damage. Do wounds really stack such that if you get wounded a second time you are incapacitated and then if you get wounded a third time you are mortally wounded?


YES.. That's why in both the first and 2nd edition, it says "COMBAT IS DANGEROUS".. Better to NOT GET HIT in the first place (high dodge!).
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Michelangelo
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the great replies! This really helps. I wonder why they would throw a 12 NPC group at you in the beginner campaign from the rule book?? Maybe like Whill said, 1e was the first stab at it.

Anyway I greatly appreciate the help, looking forward to our next adventure!
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe its because in games, pcs are generally more able than even 3 stormies against 1 pcs??
Based just on stats.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Breakout Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Maybe its because in games, pcs are generally more able than even 3 stormies against 1 pcs??
Based just on stats.

This is 1e. On the 1e damage chart, the damage roll had to be double the strength roll to incapacitate, so those were rare. Mortally wounded was had to be triple so those were very rare. So you'd normally have to wound stormtroopers twice to take them down, so a fight with 12 stormtroopers could go on forever if the PCs had high dodge and weren't getting hit.

Michelangelo wrote:
Thanks for the great replies! This really helps. I wonder why they would throw a 12 NPC group at you in the beginner campaign from the rule book??

Looking at the adventure again, I presume you are referring to the 'Stormtroopers Arrive' section on p.106. The PCs never have to fight all 12 stormtroopers at once, and can possibly get away without fighting any at the end of the adventure.

The troopers are shooting from the side tunnels. There are only two side tunnels, and I would rule that no more than two stormtroopers can shoot from each corner, one low and one high. So that would be no more than four of the 12 troopers firing on the PCs. Looking at the map, troopers could also be further back at the corner where the main tunnel turns, so going beyond the strict verbiage of the adventure in specifying side tunnels, that would add no more than two more troopers. So even though there are 12 stormtroopers there, only 4-6 of them should be able to fire on the PCs at once. I feel the adventure should have explicitly pointed that out to beginning GMs.

However, the adventure does say they appear and start attacking when two of the PCs are down the shaft, at whomever they can still see. Since from their firing positions they can't see any PCs that are already down or have started moving down the shaft, all any remaining PCs at the top have to do is start moving down the shaft to end that section's firefight.

It also says that if four or more stormtroopers are incapacitated or killed, then the rest fall back to regroup, giving the rest of the PCs the chance to start down the shaft. It seems to me that this was only added in case any PCs at the top of the shaft (for some reason) don't start moving down the shaft after the troopers start shooting at them. At this point the PCs should not really even know that there are 12 stormtroopers there since not all of them can attack with the adventure's described tactics. If any PCs at the top stayed and fought back until four stormtroopers are downed and the rest stop attacking, there would no reason for those PCs to not start down the shaft.

Later in the 'Stormtroopers Again' section, the remaining stormtroopers attack from the top of the shaft but this is only if any PCs came down on the D side and haven't completely crossed the shaft to the E side. And it says if any PCs just shoot back up at the stormtroopers (thus hit or miss), the troopers retreat from the edge, so they can no longer shoot at the PCs. Once all the PCs get across to the E side, they can get out of the line of fire, and they are on to the hanger. The fight is over.

Michelangelo wrote:
- some of my PCs definitely would have died if I had been more strict about wounds and damage. Do wounds really stack such that if you get wounded a second time you are incapacitated and then if you get wounded a third time you are mortally wounded?

Thanks for any help on these or general rule tips you can provide!

In my first campaign, two PCs died two adventures apart. I instituted a house rule where PCs and important NPCs could get wounded twice (-2D) before wounds accumulate to incapacitation. In 1996, the second 2e core rule book officially added this for all characters, but I kept it that mooks still only got wounded once.

Michelangelo wrote:
Anyway I greatly appreciate the help, looking forward to our next adventure!

Please share your adventures, and if you have any questions before running anything, let us know.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to see you playing SW with your kids, Michelangelo!

I once ran an adventure for all my kids, too. Great memories!!!
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