The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Character Analysis: Sheev Palpatine
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Characters, Droids, and Species -> Character Analysis: Sheev Palpatine
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
aegisflashfire
Commander
Commander


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Character Analysis: Sheev Palpatine Reply with quote

let me start out by saying I have not read the Darth Plaguis book so I'm basing most of my analysis of him mostly from Ep. I-Ep. VI & Most books through the NJO + some Comics.

So a little background first:
A) I was a theater major for a while, so character analysis is something I have a little practice at. What are the sources that we (as an audience or an actor) can determine information about a character
1- What the character says
2- What the character does
3- What other say about the character
4- What the character looks like


I believe that Star Wars is ultimately about good vs. Evil. No big deal, Good vs. Evil is a common trope. But there are lots of kinds of evil, and lots of kinds of good. For the purposes of Star Wars (in the 'modern' era) the Evil is personified in the Emperor aka. Darth Sidious, aka Sheev Palpatine. So to tell a good story about good and evil I have to have a grasp on the man who makes that evil. Even if I want my players to never really come face to face with that evil, I want that evil to HAVE a face.

So what do we know about Palpatine? I'm going to do this by stating some things as bald assertions, (some of which are obvious, some of which are not), and and then pointing out my observations that lead me to these conclusions. And then I hope to make statements about how that means we portray him.

A) Palpatine is a Sith Lord who never was part of the Jedi order.
-Palpatine never 'fell to the dark side' as say Dooku or Vader did. He was a total unknown to the Jedi and corrupted from the beginnings of his initiation into the Jedi arts.
What this means: Without a Fall there can be no redemption. While not all stories of fall require the opportunity for redemption, (cf. Lucifer) nearly all stories of redemption require that the character have been good at one time.

B) Palpatine is also Darth Traya. This sounds strange, and I don't mean to imply that he is the same person as Kreia from KOTORII. (or that she is somehow resurrected in him or he has her spirt) No, but Kreia's statement : "There must always be a Darth Traya, one who holds the knowledge of betrayal, who has been betrayed in heart, and will betray in turn." is incredibly telling. Also Shaak Ti's statement, "The Sith always betray one another... but I'm sure you'll learn that soon enough."
Palpatine betrays Dooku and seeks to supplant him with Vader. Palpatine betrays Vader and seeks to supplant him with Luke. Palpatine betrays the Republic. Palpatine betrays the Jedi. Palpatine betrays Mara Jade. Palpatine Betrays General Grevious.
What this means: Palpatine is rarely an in-your-face enemy. He is a puppet master. He pulls the strings, only engaging in combat when the stakes are high enough. He appears to be your friend, or master, but in the end the targets must realize they're being betrayed... preferably only a moment before its too late.

c) Palpatine prefers a hands on control of the situation. Throughout the Clone Wars we see Palpatine issuing direct orders to both sides instead of working through intermediaries. He continually consolidates power in a select group of people he has as his inner circle. He pulls power from the senate and puts the Regional governors with absolute authority over whole sectors. He has Hands that get involved directly in small conflicts that he could easily delegate.
What this means: Even if the players never see Palaptine it should be clear that Palpatine is the one in control. This may mean that you have to do more cut-scenes to see him pulling the strings. This will help give a grander scale to the conflict.

d) Palpatine plays the long game. Palpatine's plans for Anakin don't come to fruition for 20 years. He plan to take over the Republic goes on at least 15 years, and probably far longer than that. It is stated that Palpatine is aware of the Yuzhaan Vong nearly 40 years before they arrive en masse. His militarization of the republic is one aspect of this. (The Republic had no army leading up to the Clone Wars)

e) Palpatine always has a backup. Palpatine builds 2 Death stars. He grooms multiple Hands such as Mara Jade. He has Darth Maul while working to create Darth Vader (and then Darth Tyranus) Palpatine kept dozens of storehouses around the galaxy, including alternate cloning facilities.
What this means: Just when the players defeat the super weapon, they realize there is another one... another Goldeneye Satellite, another Machine for Jodi Foster to travel in.

f) Palpatine directly manipulates those around him. Its stated in the Heir to the Empire books that Palpatine uses the force to directly improve the morale and motivation of his troops. He uses the force to 'push' Anakin to the dark side.
What this means: Those exposed to the Emperor in person are likely to fall prey to his personal corruption. This can be by temptation or by rising rage that the Emperor is instilling.

g) Palpatine loves super weapons. duh. But still. Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Eclipse class Star Destroyers, World Devastators, Galaxy Guns, Force Storms, etc. Maybe he's compensating for something...
What this means: Darth Sidious is not afraid of technology and understands that both it and the Force are tools that grant power. He is likely to have others in the bank, so if you want to run a campaign, some new superweapon is as good a starting point as any.

h) Palpatine is an innovator and inventor and Practitioner of Sith Alchemy: This is mostly straight from the comics (dark Empire I, II III) but also the creation of Anakin too. Sidious uses the Force in ways that no one else does. He continues Plagious's work in creating life. He creates Crystal beasts (rancors infused with dark energy), he learns to transfer his consciousness to a new body, and creates Force Storms. He institutes the Rule of One.
What this means: Palpatine's use of the force does not have to follow what has been seen by anyone else. He can use the force in ways that are not documented in the rules. Don't be afraid to give him new powers or have him create something unseen (though relating it to what has is probably good)

ui) Palpatine relies heavily on Fareseeing.
How many times does he make reference to what he has seen in his visions, particularly in Ep IV-VI?
What this means: Palpatine is likely to be 2-3 steps ahead of your PCs and they'll believe it. As a GM you have to make it appear is as he anticipated their moves (sometimes this means fudging things a little. A stormtrooper squad that was waiting for the PCs even if there is no chance they tripped an alarm) - This is good in a way, it gives you the chance to have that firefight the PCs worked SO HARD to avoid.

j) Palpatine is an opportunist.
Sometimes things take Palpatine by surprise. Even his farseeing isn't perfect. But he's adaptable enough to take advantage of things when he can. We see this some in the Clone Wars and some in Old Republic era. (Palpatine didn't foresee the Chiss or Thrawn or the Yuzhaan Vong, but he capitalized on those bits of information as soon as they came his way.
What this means: if the players DO get the drop on the situation, Palpatine will still find ways adapting and twisting it to suit his own goals

k) Palpatine is overconfident.
We hear Luke and Mon Mothma both describe him this way. And he is arrogant about his visions.
What this means:To stay true to the character he should probably make a mistake or two and those mistakes should be grounded in overconfidence.

l) Palpatine doesn't throw away anything.
Palpatine saves Luke's hand after its cut off. He clones Jorus C'Boath, and any number of other useful 'tidbits' from around the galaxy.
What this means:This packrat mentality means that he very likely has virtually limitless stores of ancient artifacts or valuable materials could show up were, say an old storehouse be discovered.




m) Palpatine is not a speciest:
The EMPIRE is speciest, but Palpatine is not. Those he vests with the most power are not necessarily human. His master was a Muun, and his closest aides included Darth Maul, Mas Ammeda, Grand Admiral Thrawn, and a number of force adepts from various species.
What this means:
The enemies working directly as agents of Palpatine have no requirement on them that they're human.


n)Palpatines Likes to taunt beaten foes.
Speaks again to arrogance, but torturing Luke instead of killing him outright is what cost him the Battle of Endor.


o) When the chips are down Palpatine gets involved personally. Palpatine rescues Vader from Mustafaar personally, and confronts the two most deadly Jedi in the order in one on one combat (Windu & Yoda). Palpatine interrogates the would-be leaders of the new Rebellion personally and engages Starkiller in one-on-one combat. Palpatine works to corrupt Luke and puts himself in the middle of a battle.
What this means: Odds are your PC's arent important enough to warrant Palpatine actually engaging them in combat



p) Palpatine Knows about the Yuzhan Vong long before they arrive
Its at least strongly suggested that Thrawn and the Chiss are well aware of an incoming alien invasion force and Palpatine seems pretty convinced that the unarmed republic has no chance of standing up to them. His goals in the Clone War do not seem to be the destruction of military production facilities (indeed, the militaries of both sides are significantly advanced--- its almost like he built a crucible to see which would be most effective Clones or droids and then went with that for the backbone of his new army.
What this means: Palpatine wants to build up Imperial war machine--even if he doesn't need that much to defeat the rebellion. He doesn't attempt to exterminate non-humans; he mostly just wants them working for him. His evil needs to be about Control rather than extermination. (though sometimes its necessary if they're a threat to your control, such as the Faleeen were.)
_________________
http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4833

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is some interesting analysis with a few good ideas as to what you can do with the character in a campaign. Thanks for posting it.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2684
Location: Online

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me likey!

Think you'd like to come on the podcast and talk about it?
_________________
Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
@swd6podcast, Twitter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cynanbloodbane
Commander
Commander


Joined: 05 Dec 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Cleveland, Go Tribe!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Me likey!

Think you'd like to come on the podcast and talk about it?


Yes please do! In fact I would love to hear what the Palpatine take would be in response to PCs successfully completing some of the classic adventures like Starfall or Graveyard of Alderaan.
_________________
"Yes because killing the guy you always planned on usurping and killing anyways in order to save your own kid, totally atones for murdering a roomful of innocent trusting children." The Brain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aegisflashfire
Commander
Commander


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Me likey!

Think you'd like to come on the podcast and talk about it?

I'm game. I think I'dwant to round out my research a bit before then though.
_________________
http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kytross
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 773

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it said Shave Palpatine.

Well done sir, well done.

Don't forget he is the only Sith to take control of the galaxy and eliminate the Jedi.

The brilliance lay especially in not attacking the Republic. The Jedi could sense attacks, the Separatists bore no ill will so their plans were not easily deduced by the Jedi until after they had a substantial army.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarn
Force Spirit


Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's pretty much spot on. It also dovetails somewhat with an idea I've been toying with, where there's a limited number of Darth titles, and that they tell something about the modus operandi of the Darth wearing that title. i.e., a "Darth Treya" will always betray, a "Darth Vader" will always be a dark holy warrior, a "Darth Maul" will always be an attack dog, a "Darth Sion" will always be fueled by pain, and so on.

I do have one quibble, though.

Quote:
His evil needs to be about Control rather than extermination. (though sometimes its necessary if they're a threat to your control, such as the Faleeen were.)


Sure, the Faleen had a city exterminated by Darth Vader, but that was primarily as a ruthless quarantine measure iirc. I don't think old Sheev ordered a general extermination of Faleen, even though they were mind trick resistant.[/quote]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Character Analysis: Sheev Palpatine Reply with quote

aegisflashfire wrote:
Character Analysis: Sheev Palpatine...

I'm basing most of my analysis of him mostly from Ep. I-Ep. VI & Most books through the NJO + some Comics.

...For the purposes of Star Wars (in the 'modern' era) the Evil is personified in the Emperor aka. Darth Sidious, aka Sheev Palpatine....

So what do we know about Palpatine? I'm going to do this by stating some things as bald assertions, (some of which are obvious, some of which are not), and and then pointing out my observations that lead me to these conclusions. And then I hope to make statements about how that means we portray him.

This is great. Thank you for doing this! I'll just give some select commentary.

aegisflashfire wrote:
A) Palpatine is a Sith Lord who never was part of the Jedi order.
-Palpatine never 'fell to the dark side' as say Dooku or Vader did. He was a total unknown to the Jedi and corrupted from the beginnings of his initiation into the Jedi arts.
What this means: Without a Fall there can be no redemption. While not all stories of fall require the opportunity for redemption, (cf. Lucifer) nearly all stories of redemption require that the character have been good at one time.

Sith Arts technically, but yeah. In Darth Plagueis, Palpatine's father describes his son as evil from birth. While Palpatine was always evil, there was a specific horrific event that happened in his teen years when he took a very large step towards full embracement of the Dark Side of the Force, and it was soon after that he was made the apprentice Sith Lord to Plagueis.

aegisflashfire wrote:
c) Palpatine prefers a hands on control of the situation. Throughout the Clone Wars we see Palpatine issuing direct orders to both sides instead of working through intermediaries. He continually consolidates power in a select group of people he has as his inner circle. He pulls power from the senate and puts the Regional governors with absolute authority over whole sectors. He has Hands that get involved directly in small conflicts that he could easily delegate.
What this means: Even if the players never see Palaptine it should be clear that Palpatine is the one in control. This may mean that you have to do more cut-scenes to see him pulling the strings. This will help give a grander scale to the conflict.

There is also something to be said of a slow reveal to Palpatine over the course of a campaign. "There's always a bigger fish." The PCs may think they know who the main villain is behind the scenes, just to later find out it goes higher and so on until eventually finding out it was Palpatine pulling the strings all along.

aegisflashfire wrote:
e) Palpatine always has a backup. Palpatine builds 2 Death stars. He grooms multiple Hands such as Mara Jade. He has Darth Maul while working to create Darth Vader (and then Darth Tyranus) Palpatine kept dozens of storehouses around the galaxy, including alternate cloning facilities.
What this means: Just when the players defeat the super weapon, they realize there is another one... another Goldeneye Satellite, another Machine for Jodi Foster to travel in.
...
g) Palpatine loves super weapons. duh. But still. Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Eclipse class Star Destroyers, World Devastators, Galaxy Guns, Force Storms, etc. Maybe he's compensating for something...
What this means: Darth Sidious is not afraid of technology and understands that both it and the Force are tools that grant power. He is likely to have others in the bank, so if you want to run a campaign, some new superweapon is as good a starting point as any.

I'm glad you described the second Death Star as a backup. RotS showed the what is presumably the first Death Star under construction 19 years before it became fully operational. That was criticized by the prequel-bashers because the second Death Star was bigger, more powerful, operational and largely complete only 4 years after the first one was destroyed. That criticism includes the assumption that the second Death Star was not already in the works before the first one was destroyed.

The second Death Star could have begun construction as a backup soon after the first, but was always supposed to be larger so intended to take longer to build. The smaller first one was good enough for the Senate to be dissolved (so fear of the Death Star could keep the star systems in line).

aegisflashfire wrote:
I have not read the Darth Plaguis book...
aegisflashfire wrote:
I think I'dwant to round out my research a bit before then though.

I highly recommend reading Darth Plagueis. Despite the title, Palpatine is actually the main character of the book and it details a lot of his life from birth to TPM. It's a great book.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jerrod Owex
Sub-Lieutenant
Sub-Lieutenant


Joined: 26 Apr 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very good work! You must really like the character to put so much work into this. It actually helps me a bit with something I want to do for Star Wars giving insight into why he does what he does, and even sometimes why he does what he does WHEN he does it.

Do you have plans to do this with other characters too or was this a one time deal with Palpatine?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crazydanny1
Sub-Lieutenant
Sub-Lieutenant


Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 68
Location: Midwest, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was great! Hands down! Lots of info and very good insight into the character.

My only problem with it is now that EU content is considered "Legends", how much will change with Ep. VII?

Otherwise, I'm impressed.
_________________
"Sarcasm is just one of the many services I provide."

http://swbloodlines.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Bloodlines_Wiki
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazydanny1 wrote:
My only problem with it is now that EU content is considered "Legends", how much will change with Ep. VII?

Otherwise, I'm impressed.

It only has to be an issue for you if some aspect of the new canon contradicts something from the EU, and you happen to prefer the change over the original continuity. A lot of this WEG game is now "Legends" too, but that doesn't stop us.

It's a Star Wars Multiverse, and each GM has their own universe (or multiverse) with the freedom to incorporate or disregard any continuity you wish. If you choose to automatically favor all new canon for your personal SWU, that's your own issue.

The newer Disney publishing model and future films change nothing for me. I continue to define my own personal canon for my own SWU, cherry picking the parts I like from the EU and now also the canon universe, and disregarding the aspects of both I don't like.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2258
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found it interesting that they're now clarifying that Palpatine/Sidious killed Darth Plagueis before the events of TPM, though they've still kept it fairly vague as to the exact time.
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised i never saw this thread before.. If the creator is still around, i give him mad props for some very cool indepth look at palpy...

And for his first name, the first time i heard it (saw it), i always thought they were trying to go for Shiv (like the blade folks use in prisons to shank others), then someone suggested it was more akin to shave (shaving!), someone else thought it was more like She -ve..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2258
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know where to put that link; I was actually looking for ones that I'd recently seen that spelled out that it was Legends that Plagueis was killed during TPM (but couldn't find them).

For years I've found some of the later assigned first names, like Sheev and Wilhuff and others, a bit off-putting and strange.
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Characters, Droids, and Species All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0