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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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When I originally wrote up the rules for Dogfighting, it was heavily influenced by real world dogfighting terminology. In order to bring the system more in line with the SWU, it needs to be reworked to that it aligns with the Five Stages of Starfighter Combat as summarized in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook (pgs. 73-82). This will require compiling quite a few separate rules into a single post; in fact, it may be necessary to give each stage its own post in order to keep it easy to read and access.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | ...in fact, it may be necessary to give each stage its own post in order to keep it easy to read and access. |
That sounds like the way to go. |
So, I kinda jumped the gun. The first listed Stage is Detection, which is hugely important in both real and fictional dogfights. Whoever detects their opponent first has an advantage, and the ship with the better, longer-ranged sensors is going to have that advantage. Unfortunately, the existing Sensor rules are a bit too complex to easily and accurately convert into a fast paced system that represents differing range values and sensor capabilities. Obviously, and X-Wing is going to have superior detection range to a TIE fighter, but I'm unsure how that would translate into a dice roll...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 439
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I am late to the party on this thread but am curious if there have been any updates to the posted rules. Also, it is required to use the old 1E speed codes or is there a version that uses the 2E speed codes? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I am late to the party on this thread but am curious if there have been any updates to the posted rules. Also, it is required to use the old 1E speed codes or is there a version that uses the 2E speed codes? |
The most recent version can be found in this topic. The 1E Speed Codes are used as part of the Dogfighting Rules in order to establish attack range. 2E Speeds are still used for normal chases and the like. The idea is to represent the pilot's ability to accelerate / brake to his advantage in combat.
Everything updated has been posted in the House Rules section of my Index. Is there something in particular you are looking for?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 439
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I was getting hung up on using the old 1E speed codes (while reviewing the dogfighting rules) and wanted to avoid that. However, the conversion is very easy from 2E flat space units back to 1E dice codes and it gives more dice to roll in the opposed dogfights. I do actually prefer the randomness and variability of dice codes over fixed values for dogfights the more I think about it. For most of your rules, I usually just need to digest them to go through some of the process you must have to come to your conclusions. As always, I appreciate all the work you do on these comprehensive house rule packages. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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If it helps, I have actually added 1E Speed Codes and my Velocity Modifier House Rules to all the ship and vehicle stats in my Index. I perused the earlier stuff in this topic, and the majority of it has either been updated as an improved concept, already integrated into existing stat posts, or the update is pending the development of another concept it is dependent on.
EDIT: At some point in the next few days, I think I'll do an update post, detailing which concepts have been rewritten / integrated into newer concepts, and which are awaiting the updates of larger concepts.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
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Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | ALTERNATE SHIELD RULES:
Shields function differently in the X-Wing video games than they do in the RPG. Rather than being focused in a single arc, they provide all-around coverage, which can then be transferred from one side to the other as needed. In addition, ion cannon do not ignore shields, but instead have a leeching effect, draining the power away from shields instead of passing straight through them. To represent this, use the following optional rule:
Starfighter Scale
Shields provide equal coverage to all fire arcs equally. If your ship has 1D Shields, it has 1D Shields in all four fire arcs. Power may be transferred between opposite fire arcs on a pip or whole-dice basis (Example: If your ship has 1D in Shields, and you want to increase your forward shields by +2, reduce the aft shields to +1, then apply the +2 bonus to the bow shields). Redirecting energy in this fashion can only be done between opposing fire arcs (front and back or left and right). Transferring power between shields is a free action, but requires a Very Easy Starship Shields skill roll, and happens in a matter of seconds.
Capital Scale
Capital ships are big enough to have independent shield generators for each fire arc, and shield energy can be shared between them. As with starfighter scale, power diverted to the shields in one arc is subtracted from the shields of one of the other three arcs (or all three at once). Use the following tables to determine Capital Ship Shields Difficulty and Time Taken:Condition = Base Difficulty
One Arc to Another Arc = Easy
Multiple Arcs to One Arc = Moderate
One Arc to Multiple Arcs = Moderate
Multiple Arcs to Multiple Arcs = Difficult
Capital Ship Shields succeeds by = Time Taken
1-5 = 2D rounds
6-10 = 1D rounds
11-15 = 2 rounds
16-20 = 1 round
21+ 1 action
While Capital Ship Shields are more versatile, they are slower to react, and a low roll by the ship's Shields operator can leave the ship with no shields in a fire arc for several rounds; time during which starfighters can inflict massive damage if they move quickly enough. If a capital ship loses its shields on a threatened arc, and is slow to bring them back up, a common tactic will be to roll upside down, so that the unshielded arc is now turned away from the ship's attackers. |
I have been using your alternate shield rules for some time now, but I was applying the Capital Ship Shield rules to starfighters without any modifications. Did you discard the simplified shield rules for starfighters or do you recommend them.
If the latter applies, I have a follow-up question. Inspired by your modified scale rules, I crested a step above Starfighter scale (6D) which I called Freighter scale (8D - your Walker scale, I believe). So with the different starfighter and capital ship shield rules, which rules would you apply to an 8D scale ship? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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The thing to remember is, all of the stuff from the early pages of this topic is outdated, and does not take precedence over any of the newer stuff. The Shields as Cover topic posted in my Index is the most current version.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 439
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought maybe this was a total compilation of the advanced starfighter rules. Regardless, I am intrigued by the simplified starfighter shield rules that you had presented earlier... |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | The thing to remember is, all of the stuff from the early pages of this topic is outdated, and does not take precedence over any of the newer stuff. The Shields as Cover topic posted in my Index is the most current version. |
I thought maybe this was a total compilation of the advanced starfighter rules. Regardless, I am intrigued by the simplified starfighter shield rules that you had presented earlier... |
There is no harm in bringing up an older version of house rules if that specifically intrigues you, but I definitely suggest first checking CRM's Index (linked in his signature) for the latest version and maybe acknowledging the newer version in the ask. It is understandable that you may not get the same response if asking about an older version. I am aware that at least in some cases the rules are intertwined, so using an older version may not work with other house rules.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I created a step above Starfighter scale (6D) which I called Freighter scale (8D - your Walker scale, I believe). So with the different starfighter and capital ship shield rules, which rules would you apply to an 8D scale ship? |
Others have suggested a separate scale for freighters, but I think it's a bad idea. For one thing, one of the most common forms of space combat in the game is a freighter (the PC ship) vs pursuing/attacking enemy fighters. Having the ships be the same scale simplifies combat, since you don't have the extra step of converting scales every time you resolve gunnery and damage. Additionally, your suggestion would make freighters a lot tougher (example: a stock YT-1300 would have a Hull equivalent of 6D to resist attacking TIE fighters), unless you're going to convert all of the freighter stats to match. While the average freighter is certainly larger than a starfighter, a huge portion of the freighter's interior is hollow (so it can carry freight), which makes it more fragile from a structural standpoint.
I view the Scale System as being primarily about size, but I'm willing to make exceptions for things like power output, structural fragility and the like. I just don't think making freighters a higher scale is worth it.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I thought maybe this was a total compilation of the advanced starfighter rules. |
That's what it started as, but much of the stuff it originally covered has evolved quite a bit since then.
| Quote: | | Regardless, I am intrigued by the simplified starfighter shield rules that you had presented earlier... |
You can try them if you like, but they were a very early concept, and I prefer the newer version, as IMO it better encapsulates how shields are used in-universe.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Others have suggested a separate scale for freighters, but I think it's a bad idea. For one thing, one of the most common forms of space combat in the game is a freighter (the PC ship) vs pursuing/attacking enemy fighters. Having the ships be the same scale simplifies combat, since you don't have the extra step of converting scales every time you resolve gunnery and damage. Additionally, your suggestion would make freighters a lot tougher (example: a stock YT-1300 would have a Hull equivalent of 6D to resist attacking TIE fighters), unless you're going to convert all of the freighter stats to match. While the average freighter is certainly larger than a starfighter, a huge portion of the freighter's interior is hollow (so it can carry freight), which makes it more fragile from a structural standpoint. |
I use your vehicle stats and scale system, and I for one am very thankful for light freighters remaining the same scale as fighters. R&E-style die code scale is certainly not difficult to implement in play, but I still prefer not to deal with scale if at all possible during play. I try have a space combat sequence in most adventures (gotta keep the star in Star Wars), and it often is freighter vs fighters.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quick update: preparatory to posting stats for the XQ-Class Station, I wrote up stats for a dedicated Point Defense Missile and added them to the Missiles, Rockets & Torpedoes post
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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