Venator-Class Star Destroyer

[Dredwulf60]

Speaking of eras...

I think it is a fallacy to consider Star Wars tech to be constantly improving in short time frames.

Because we live on a planet that sees rapid tech advancement over a matter of decades, it seems to makes sense to apply this to the Star Wars Galaxy.

But if you think about it logically...if things are advancing at that rate, then you would have to reduce the efficiency of the tech at the same slope or rate when going backward in time.

If you follow that slope...how incredibly crappy would the ships and tech be 100 years before the battle of Yavin?

What about 300 years?

500 years or more?


In my game, I assume the tech progression is fairly static. Like a high fantasy genre, where warriors 1000 years ago were riding horses and wielding swords....very much like they are today...and will be in another 100 years.

Sometimes there are new inventions or tech improvements, but the overall employment of tech stays pretty much in the same range.

[Mamatried]

[cheshire]

[denderan marajain]

@Cheshire


No, I just point out that you can discuss without drama and cynicism and sarcasm have quite your justification as a stylistic device


The recurring claim I would ignore rules, etc. and the way it was done was also personal, but I do not need an administrator to perform my "battles" for me


Of course it will always be a bit personal in such debates, but if I'm an adult person, my life will not be ruine

[cheshire]

I'm not sure if there's a language barrier here or if there is something else in the way, but I'm going to try to put this another way.

I'm a forum moderator. I'm telling you that the tone in this thread is less civil than we expect users to maintain on the forum. CRMmcneil has said that he's bowing out of engaging you. If that's what he needs to do, then that's sub-optimal but better than letting things degrade to a bickering match between the two of you.

You're still invoking a sanctimonious attitude about your engagement. That's not civil conversation.

If you have questions, please feel free to ask me in a PM.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Dredwulf60]

[Mamatried]

If we do look at the sword.
That technology didn't change in what 5000 years maybe even more.
spear being even more "basic" remained more or less unchanged for 100 000 years.

Looking at most weapons, and Ship Stat Sheets there is an "Era" stat, and to me this is where you have made a mechanical difference.

It is not supposed to be mixed too much, however 20 years, even with wars is not all that much.
We saw during Vietnam that ww2 era aircraft were still in active use, rifles too in the early stages.

But like our world I am pretty sure that the galaxy far far away also have eras where development is higher than other eras, and like on earth not every area is equaly developed.

If we remove the fighters from both the ISD and the Venator, we do see less guns, less armor and somewhat less speed and maneuver.
Not in all cases but a 8 gun vanator vs a 60 gun ISD is significant.

Now the issue of comparing the ones, have to be on as equal terms as possible, and refelect their "era" at the same time.

It would not be fair to compare a venator with "new" armor, better weapons and a newer version of starfighters, with new sensors and targeting systems etc etc.
So we have to look at the "old" stock version.

Lets also say that it is at a max starfighter compliment, with inferior fighters that will only on the extreme success be able to even damage the ISD.
And will be picked off by the point defense weapons, again in larger number than any venator.

Secondly the sensors, these indicate the ranges where the ships can operate, and the difference is huge, it actually makes it hard to effectively deploy the fighters with no real support.

Once they are done with, being inferior in speed and maneuver comperd to the tie they will loose, numbers are not that important.

Now the venator is empty of starfighters and is dead....given it is so inferior in armament and armor.


So comparing the two is in may ways impossible, it is like comparing a F-15 to a FW-190, both among the best fighters of their era, but neither is good in a versus.


Also looking at how developmnet is depicted......it makes more sense to give an "era used" stat, than having a weapon do +1pip becuse it is didn't have deluxe batteries, and if the game is set in the old days a 1D waepon is a planet killer?

No the only real good way to actually reflect the level of tech is the "era" stat block, an eras do overlap, and weapons and equipment as well.

But there is not and can not reasonably be any mechanical XD difference, other than maybe a footnote in some rule that if the era is so and so then reduce X from so and so stat if used in newer times.

We also don't see much that is oldet than at best 150 years when it comes to guns and vehicles anrmor and the like.

I think we have yet to see anything old republic in the "later times"
With the lightsaber being the exception.

But again, looking at developments we don't often see anthing new, ut we do see almost non stop "upgrade" or improvements.

Looking to TFA and TLJ era we do see the TIEs here being far superior to any fighter of the "classic era", they are better armed, have shields and hyperdrives (most likely)
Etc etc.

here we do see this tech development.

Now to then argue that the so and so older is better even in numbers is ok if the gap in tech is small enough.

I am sitting by a machinegun mowing down the horde of attackers storming my position, if they have stone axes I don't need to worry , when I run out of ammo I close the hatch and I am safe, their weapons eeven all of them can not in any way hurt me.

Equally I would be just as relaxed and not worried if they had muskets, and the like.

Even to some extent ww2 guns.

Look at the primary Anti Armor weapons of that era 1-2 inches of penetration.......this is actually "less" than some modern infantry weapons.

Meaning that ALL the 1500 Tigers build if pitted against ONE abrams then the abrams would kill all the tigers and not be damaged at all.

In a game like this using D6 stats, both tanks would be very similar but belong to different eras

[CRMcNeill]

It should be noted that the “8 gun Venator” is technically incorrect, as the official stats do not show one weapon system that was clearly depicted in ROTS.

During the battle of Coruscant, when a Venator made a broadside run against the Invisible Hand, cannon could be clearly seen firing through ports in the hull, yet no such weapons appear on the ship’s stats.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Mamatried]

[CRMcNeill]

[Mamatried]

Going beyond Wookiepedia and looking at actual footage from both the live action movies and the animated series, both being canon I noticed something regarding the venator's main weapons.

They appear be to located at the hull, just under the two towes, on each side of the tover base.

It is 4 on each side making it an 8 gun ship, however looking closely at the footage I see double barrels, and on other ships where gunnery is listed as a turbo laser the footage shows twin or quad barrel guns.

Now this being a 8 twin cannon ship doens't change much in ways of thw ship being inferior by 0BBY/0ABY

[Zarn]

I'm wondering about retrofit costs now. Perhaps the Empire are arrogant enough that they don't want to use 'obsolete equipment', but retrofitting a Venator instead of sending it to the breakers might make (economic) sense for, say, the Corporate Sector or something like that.

[cheshire]

The thread is now reopened. Let's please keep to the subject. Any questions or commentary on moderation methods can be directed to the moderators via PM.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Thx1138]

Over the last few days I have been throwing an alternate use for the venator in my head. Looking at that long hanger, I considered that the empire might use them like the star galleon as the long hanger bay would be great converted as a cargo bay since it seems that the individual hangers seem to have some shielding around them which adds some protection for dangerous cargo. The venator would also be capable of defending itself against most pirates and it's two side hangers could hold around two squadrons for anti fighter defense.

[RyanDarkstar]