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garhkal
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 Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well lets 'crunch the #s'.
First practically every weapon other than grenades/missiles seems to not even LIST a blast radius, where as in the novels we see several times where turbolaser batteries wipe out entire blocks.
So first off we would need to get blast radius's made FOR the big guns.
But lets say the blast radius for a Capital turbolaser are 0-4/8/12/16/20 meters, with a drop in damage of 2d per 'zone'.
Just using the book listed stats, we see a turbolaser (dual) on the Correlian corvettes as 4d+2 damage, while the turbolaser batteries on the ISD and Mon cal MC-80s are 5d for those on the ISD and 4d for those on the MC (the same as those on the Neb-B).
So lets go with the 4d damage ones.. That equates with scale diff to 16d/14d/12d/10d for the five blast zones.
Take someone in just the 2nd zone (4-8 meters out). 14d damage is what they are looking at with an average roll of 49. Just a bounty hunter (Human) on a FP is 6d+4 (base str doubled) +1d for armor (7d). If he quads up, he is 13d+8. 53.5 average.
Even a 3d str character (which is average for PCs) is rolling 12d with no armor. So on average that is ONLY going to be a wound.
Even a maxed out strength wookie (6d) only needs to just pop a force point to get to that 12d soak value with no armor. Even at point blank, that 12d vs 16d only averages out to 14 points of damage overflow.
Compared to mook 2d average str npc, even if he HAD a FP they could max out quadding to 8d.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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The problem there is that a turbolaser's blast radius wouldn't be a fixed value. For one, a 10D turbolaser will deliver more energy per blast than a 7D turbolaser, and will thus have a larger blast. For another, a uniform blast radius doesn't take into account the blast radius effects of multiple turbolasers firing at the same target.
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Blast radius in atmosphere would also include the vaporized target of impact expanding outwards & displacing the atmosphere. While I would only use that for cap scale, it is more than enough when combined with the weapon damage. If the blast don't kill em, the lack of breathable air and super heated gas cloud will.
For starfighter scale vs character I would allow for reduced damage on a near miss. There is a real world example, a M2 50 cal can kill a person with a near miss of about a foot due to the velocity of the air caused by the size and speed of the round. (Part of why the army only targets equipment with a M2) In SW the near miss lethality would be caused by the size, power and heat of the blast on the surrounding air and impact site.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | The problem there is that a turbolaser's blast radius wouldn't be a fixed value. For one, a 10D turbolaser will deliver more energy per blast than a 7D turbolaser, and will thus have a larger blast. For another, a uniform blast radius doesn't take into account the blast radius effects of multiple turbolasers firing at the same target. |
True. So, how's about a base of 2M +1 per D (inc scale difference) of the Turbolaser, broken into 5 blast radiuses, 20% in each radii.
So a 4d cap turbo is 16d, or 18m. broken into effectively 0-4/8/12/15/18 as a blast radius.
Then we also need to figure out, when dodging it, what is the difficulty needed, and how many blast zones do they get out if they make it?
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| cynanbloodbane wrote: |
Also considering that the Superlaser converted to Capital scale of 28D, can blow a planet to bits, that 28D needs to cover not only the soak of the planet but also it's defensive shield.
I'm not saying that parts of the system are not flawed, I'm just asking questions. |
I will offer this, as Yes, I have had this conversation more times with Star Wars groups, players, and fans than I can count...
The Laser on the Death Star did not actual destroy the planet in the classic RPG sense, by damaging the whole planet and depleting or overwhelming some damage level. Consider this (it is a major limitation in all role playing games when it comes to breaking things) the beam is just too darn small overall. It does not even engulf a significant portion of the planet's surface. I believe it achieved it's effect instead by acting as a pinpoint (on a planetary scale anyway) laser drill. It punched through the tectonic plates, into the mantle and the core. Obviously it had tremendous power, and so tremendous heat, likely super-heating and vaporizing the magma and liquid metal in the core, increasing pressure and tectonic stresses on the planet itself. The overall end result was much like what you get when you stick an egg in the microwave on high and then lightly tap it... BOOM!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Then we also need to figure out, when dodging it, what is the difficulty needed, and how many blast zones do they get out if they make it? |
Honestly, the larger in scale the weapon becomes, the less interested I am in calculating exactly the size of the blast radius and exactly how much damage it inflicts. At that level, a capital ship performing an orbital bombardment on the square kilometer of a planet's surface that the characters happen to be standing in is going to be more like hazardous terrain than anything else.
If you want a rule, I say roll to hit, with scale modifiers applied normally, then reduce damage in equal proportion to the degree of miss. If a heavy turbolaser battery on an ISD II misses by 42 points, roll damage at Capital Scale and subtract 42 points from the damage roll.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Lets run that as an example then.
Ave cap ship gunnery by most books seems to be 4d+2. Ave fire control is 2d. So 6d+2 to hit, averages out to 23 to hit.
Ave PC has around 5-6d dodge. so 17 to 18d with scale diff taken into account. Ave roll on that would come out to be 59.5 or 63.
A 36.6 or 40 difference.
Ave cap scale turbolaser battery is 6d damage, 12d scale diff puts that to 18d, so ave roll is 63. - 40 leaves only 23 damage for a PC to soak, and with the ave pc (comparing most book templates) 3d, +1d armor, gives 14 for an ave soak. So overage would only be 9, incapacitation.
Seems a little weak, especially when that PC can pop FP or CP to increase either their soak OR dodge roll.
Unless you battery fire a LOT of turbos, its not going to be the threat it is using that rule you proposed.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:24 am Post subject: |
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Well, if you are using an orbital bombard to take out characters, you are unlikely to limit yourself to a single turbolaser or a single shot. A sustained bombardment is far more likely to kill someone than a single shot.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Zarm R'keeg
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Joined: 14 Apr 2012
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Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Total scientific imbecile talking, but could there be something in the way a planetary shield generator is grounded that might protect it from the ion attack, in a way that starship are not? Perhaps it could even be insulated/the generator source far enough away that anything that struck the emitter wouldn't be able to get far enough to knock it out- whereas on a starship, everything's all grouped together and the energy has nowhere to go?
EDIT: Whoops. Missed pages 2, 3, and 4, so the discussion has probably gone way beyond this point. Ignore me. 
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Good point.. An officer won't usually be limiting the bombardment to one single shot. But that it should take 3+ to kill someone is imo outlandish.
And as to the grounding angle, i like that thought.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Good point.. An officer won't usually be limiting the bombardment to one single shot. But that it should take 3+ to kill someone is imo outlandish. |
I used to think so, too, but then I saw several gun camera videos from Iraq and Afghanistan where the 30mm cannon on an Apache failed to kill a human sized target on a single burst. The problem wasn't that the individual shells weren't enough to turn a human being into giblets; it was that the gun's fire control wasn't accurate enough on a human size target to do more than generate enough shrapnel to wound the target. Even after a short burst of fire, the wounded target could still be seen trying to crawl to cover.
It's the same situation here. The problem isn't that cannon aren't powerful enough to kill on a single shot; the problem is that the cannon lacks the precision to hit a comparatively tiny target for a direct kill. Therefore, it has to get close enough to generate secondary or tertiary effects, such as shrapnel, shock waves and collapsing buildings.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Which is why i was wondering what their blast radius should be..
As it is, even with walkers and starfighter scale weapons. Its an Either it hits or Misses way. Not a "put the shot at grid ref xyo44=01" where there are 3 people standing.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Which is why i was wondering what their blast radius should be.. |
Again, at Capital Scale, do you really need it? At Character Scale, sure, because at that level, blast radii are measured in distances comparable to what a character can cover in a round. With Capital guns, Point Blank probably covers an entire city block.
On top of that, grenades usually have some sort of time delay to allow characters to dive for cover. A turbolaser blast would likely have little or no warning, and survival would be almost entirely based on proximity to the impact, luck of the draw or GM fiat.
| Quote: | | As it is, even with walkers and starfighter scale weapons. Its an Either it hits or Misses way. Not a "put the shot at grid ref xyo44=01" where there are 3 people standing. |
Strictly speaking, there is no reason this rule couldn't apply to Walker or Starfighter scale, too. They would deliver less energy on impact, but their more precise fire control would allow them to put their shots in closer proximity.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | Total scientific imbecile talking, but could there be something in the way a planetary shield generator is grounded that might protect it from the ion attack, in a way that starship are not? Perhaps it could even be insulated/the generator source far enough away that anything that struck the emitter wouldn't be able to get far enough to knock it out- whereas on a starship, everything's all grouped together and the energy has nowhere to go?
EDIT: Whoops. Missed pages 2, 3, and 4, so the discussion has probably gone way beyond this point. Ignore me. |
No just sidetracked onto Cap scale blast radius on a planets surface. A little off topic, but close enough to be useful.
You make a great point. Grounding could be the reason Ion weapons are not used to take out planetary targets.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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The only in-universe incident where ion cannon are specifically mentioned as being used against a planetary shield is in X-Wing: Rogue Squadron, when the Emancipator bombarded the planetary shield during the battle of Borleias. However,e the novels are based on the X-Wing game, where ion cannon do not ignore shields. YMMV.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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