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Geting rid of spending Character Points on rolls
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ach, thank you.

It's been years and years since I last needed to really read those particular rules, and I was misremembering.

Edited the write up to correct it.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other q. Can luck points be spent in the same round you pop a force point, or is it like current rules where you can't combine force points and CP?
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For myself and my game, yes, as a different house rule, I do allow combining Luck Points and Force Points in a single turn. But then, as another house rule, a Force Point is a flat +5D instead of doubling.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon The Lion wrote:
I'll allow myself to rise this from the depths, to give an update on how the idea is working out and additional tweaks I've made. Maybe it'll be usefull to somebody.

The rules I'm currently using in my game, and which seem to work quite well for me:

Luck:
Character Points may no longer be spent for additional dice to augment rolls. Their sole function is character advancement;
Instead, characters now have the Luck "skill";
Luck is currently disconnected from any attribute, but may be tied into a Force attribute should I ever implement it;
The starting level of Luck is 5D, recieved instead of the 5 CPs beginning characters get by RAW;
Each pip in Luck gives a character one Luck Point (so each full D provides 3 Luck Points);
The entire function of Luck is to provide Luck Points, it is not actually rolled for anything;
Luck Points (LP) can be spent on augmenting attribute and skill rolls, after seeing the result of the roll, in the following ways:
1. Each LP spent adds 1 to the result of the roll;
2. Alternatively, 3 LP may be spent to add +1D to the result of the roll, but the result of the die must be accepted, even if it comes up lower than 3;
3. 3 LP may be spent when a "1" is rolled on the Wild Die to cancel any Mishap, weather Penalty or Complication, that would result;
The three uses of LP may be freely combined in one roll, in any configuration;
The maximum number of LP that may be spent on one roll is 15 for dodges, parries, and resisting Force powers, 6 otherwise;
Luck Points reset to Luck value at the end of each adventure, when CPs are awarded;
When using RAW character creation (which I don't, btw), Luck should be treated like a normal skill in all respects and may be increased as one;
After character creation, the per pip CP cost of increasing Luck is equal to double the current number of full dice in it, like with RAW Advanced Skills;
Luck has no maximum value, as long as a character pays for it, thay may increase its die code further;

Bad Luck:
A character is allowed to spend more Luck Points than he has, going into debt;
Such negative LP should be recorded as Bad Luck;
Bad Luck first comes into play in the next adventure after the one it was earned in - record all Bad Luck gained in the current adventure separately from any earlier total;
The Game Master may force a character to spend their Bad Luck Points (BLP) on degrading attribute and skill rolls, in the following ways:
1. Each BLP spent subtracts 1 from the result of the roll;
2. 3 LP may be spent when a "6" is rolled on the Wild Die to cancel the bonus die that would result;
3. 1 BLP may be spent to simply cancel one LP spent on the same roll;
The three uses of BLP may be freely combined in one roll, in any configuration;
The maximum number of BLP that a character may be forced to spend on one roll is 6 for dodges, parries, resisting Force powers, and resisting damage, 15 otherwise;
A Luck Point cancelled by a Bad Luck Point still counts as spent on the roll, normal LP spending maximums still apply;
A character may at any time spend Luck Points to cancel his Bad Luck Points, on a one-to-one basis;
Once spent or cancelled, Bad Luck Points are gone untill new ones are earned;

That's it, I believe.


While I'm not sure I'd replace character points for boosting rolls I find I quite like the idea of a luck stat and the way you've built it seems to be fairly effective.

When spending character points to boost rolls they always counted as good wild die so if we rolled a six then we got to roll them again for free but if we rolled a one then nothing happened.

Does spending three points of luck to gain an extra dice have the same effect?

Instead of tracking bad luck why not make it so that you can push your luck and spend points you don't have but they must always be spent in full dice and sixes no longer explode but ones do? That way you don't need to track bad luck and it becomes more risky to push your luck at the time you push your luck rather than at some unspecified time down the track.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good idea. That way they have the same risk like they do with Jury rigging.
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
When spending character points to boost rolls they always counted as good wild die so if we rolled a six then we got to roll them again for free but if we rolled a one then nothing happened.

Does spending three points of luck to gain an extra dice have the same effect?

No, we do not "explode" Luck Points.


Esoomian wrote:
Instead of tracking bad luck why not make it so that you can push your luck and spend points you don't have but they must always be spent in full dice and sixes no longer explode but ones do? That way you don't need to track bad luck and it becomes more risky to push your luck at the time you push your luck rather than at some unspecified time down the track.

I purposefully set up Bad Luck as I did, to make pushing your Luck pretty much a last resort desperation move. Because the character is guaranteed to suffer from it. No such thing as a free lunch. He may not know when, but he's absolutely certain he will have to pay his debt to fate. This certainty is supposed to make the players think really hard before commiting to overspending on Luck. If this results in them never actually doing it (as is actually the case in my game so far)? That's pretty much exactly what I'm aiming for.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they don't see a need to when they effectively get 5d each game to spend, or can add +15 to a roll.
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the equivalent of 5 Character Points. See DougRed4's topic on how one character once had to spend 26 CP just to stay alive. 5 is not a lot.

Believe me, there ware situations, not very common ones, but still present, when they considered going into debt. But to date, as none of those situations ware so truly potentially disastrous, they always prefer to suck up the moderately bad failure now, than incur Bad Luck and have it bite them in the @$$ when they could least afford it, potentially turning a bad situation into an outright catastrophy.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon The Lion wrote:
Esoomian wrote:
Instead of tracking bad luck why not make it so that you can push your luck and spend points you don't have but they must always be spent in full dice and sixes no longer explode but ones do? That way you don't need to track bad luck and it becomes more risky to push your luck at the time you push your luck rather than at some unspecified time down the track.

I purposefully set up Bad Luck as I did, to make pushing your Luck pretty much a last resort desperation move. Because the character is guaranteed to suffer from it. No such thing as a free lunch. He may not know when, but he's absolutely certain he will have to pay his debt to fate. This certainty is supposed to make the players think really hard before commiting to overspending on Luck. If this results in them never actually doing it (as is actually the case in my game so far)? That's pretty much exactly what I'm aiming for.


I understand the concept but it just seems (to me) that tracking bad luck and then stinging the players later seems like more effort than I'd care to go to. Especially if you're right at the end of a session and the players know they're just about to get their luck renewed and they can buy off bad luck with only limited consequences (not having that luch available next session).

To me it just seems cleaner to make pushing your luck less reliable (so perhaps on a roll of a 1-3 you get a complication) so the consequences are instant rather than using it like bad karma which may or may not come and bite them later.

Still if you're happy tracking the bad luck then perhaps that is the way to go.
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