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Updating Anti-Starfighter Weaponry for Capital Ships
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see some turrets being dual use. Like the aforementioned 5" cannons on ww2 ships.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
I agree that missiles/space torpedoes could be used as flak with a proximity fuse. Gernally what I've done in the past is left them trade off damage for F/C (simulating blast radius).

That works. It is essentially what we are suggesting doing with the cannon.

On a related note, I proposed an idea to garhkal a while back for mine fields that might also work as a rule for barrage pattern fire with turbolasers trying to hit starfighters. The idea is that, since the turbolasers are not really trying to target specific ships but are instead just saturating a box in space with energy, they are, in effect, creating hazardous terrain for the starfighters to fly through.

In game terms, start with a base terrain difficulty (say, Very Easy for hlying through open space with no obstacles). You then add a modifier to that based on the intensity of the barrage (say, +10), and require all the pilots to make a Piloting roll to pass through the barrage pattern. Anyone who beats the basic Difficulty by less than the modifier takes a hit from a cannon blast as part of the barrage pattern.

This isn't a particularly realistic system, as it favors characters with higher skill levels over those with more "common" skill levels, but that is acceptable for a heroic campaign, as it is the "extras" who will be the ones more likely to die, leaving the heroes to carry on...

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I think there is some good indications in ANH when the Imperials capture the Tanative IV. Yeah, I know it's another captial ship, but the TBL fire is pretty rapid. Or at least something is being fired rapidly.

A likely explanation is that we are seeing the combined firepower of 20 turbolaser batteries firing on the Corvette simultaneously, making it look like rapid fire.

Based on exterior views of the Corvette, its armament doesn't really match WEG stats. Instead of 6 dual turbolasers, I'm thinking more like two dual turbolaser turrets and 4 heavy laser cannon, which would give it a mix of capital and starfighter weapons. Other small ships, like the System Patrol Craft, could merit similar armaments better reflecting their missions.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
On a related note, I proposed an idea to garhkal a while back for mine fields that might also work as a rule for barrage pattern fire with turbolasers trying to hit starfighters. The idea is that, since the turbolasers are not really trying to target specific ships but are instead just saturating a box in space with energy, they are, in effect, creating hazardous terrain for the starfighters to fly through.

In game terms, start with a base terrain difficulty (say, Very Easy for hlying through open space with no obstacles). You then add a modifier to that based on the intensity of the barrage (say, +10), and require all the pilots to make a Piloting roll to pass through the barrage pattern. Anyone who beats the basic Difficulty by less than the modifier takes a hit from a cannon blast as part of the barrage pattern.

This isn't a particularly realistic system, as it favors characters with higher skill levels over those with more "common" skill levels, but that is acceptable for a heroic campaign, as it is the "extras" who will be the ones more likely to die, leaving the heroes to carry on...


This is actually a really good way to simulate things. Great idea, crmcneill!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you like. To refine the rule, I would like to add some rule for graduated damage, so that a ship that failed its piloting roll wouldn't be automatically destroyed, but could potentially take a grazing hit for partial damage. What form that would take has yet to take shape...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:

In game terms, start with a base terrain difficulty (say, Very Easy for hlying through open space with no obstacles). You then add a modifier to that based on the intensity of the barrage (say, +10), and require all the pilots to make a Piloting roll to pass through the barrage pattern. Anyone who beats the basic Difficulty by less than the modifier takes a hit from a cannon blast as part of the barrage pattern.

This isn't a particularly realistic system, as it favors characters with higher skill levels over those with more "common" skill levels, but that is acceptable for a heroic campaign, as it is the "extras" who will be the ones more likely to die, leaving the heroes to carry on...


Then why not make the 'difficulty' higher. Start at the terrain's base, and add to it the BASE to hit roll of the gunners average skill roll (fire control not added).

crmcneill wrote:
Glad you like. To refine the rule, I would like to add some rule for graduated damage, so that a ship that failed its piloting roll wouldn't be automatically destroyed, but could potentially take a grazing hit for partial damage. What form that would take has yet to take shape...


Sounds like a good idea for a new thread.. I will start.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Then why not make the 'difficulty' higher. Start at the terrain's base, and add to it the BASE to hit roll of the gunners average skill roll (fire control not added).

Because I don't particularly mind that it isn't realistic; we aren't playing in an overly realistic universe, and temporarily shelving realism for cinematic effect is all a part of Star Wars.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One idea I've tried is to use a FlaK value based on the skill, fire conrol, and combined fire rules and then use the Starship Maneuver Failure table from page 125. I replaced the normal collision damage with the normal weapon damage from the firing ship, The skids and spins represent evasion maneuvers to avoid being hit, and the collisions represented hits.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Then why not make the 'difficulty' higher. Start at the terrain's base, and add to it the BASE to hit roll of the gunners average skill roll (fire control not added).

Because I don't particularly mind that it isn't realistic; we aren't playing in an overly realistic universe, and temporarily shelving realism for cinematic effect is all a part of Star Wars.


Then why bother with coming up with a rule for it, if you are going to have it be easy for 'heroes (read PCS and named NPCs) to bypass, and just nameless npcs are the only ones who get hit..
Why not just script it as so.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Then why bother with coming up with a rule for it, if you are going to have it be easy for 'heroes (read PCS and named NPCs) to bypass, and just nameless npcs are the only ones who get hit..
Why not just script it as so.

Because they don't get a free pass, they are just ahead of the curve due to their higher dice levels. They still have to roll and potentially take a hit for damage; they are just less likely to do so.

Practically every rule in the SWU favors player characters (i.e. characters with higher than average attribute and skill levels) over NPCs. If it were just capital ships shooting at a group of starfighters with the starfighters dodging, the PCs would still be at an advantage because their higher piloting skills would give them a better chance of rolling a higher reaction skill number. I don't see how this is any different.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, normally they are above the rest by the RAW, but this is imo just increasing that.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
True, normally they are above the rest by the RAW, but this is imo just increasing that.

To a degree, yes. But considering we are making rules to play in a cinematic setting (where the extras die but the heroes usually survive to carry on), is that really such a bad thing, so long as there isn't complete script immunity?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer my SW gritty, not cimenatic.. which usually DOES stand for 'script immunity for heroes, all else suffers'.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I prefer my SW gritty, not cimenatic.. which usually DOES stand for 'script immunity for heroes, all else suffers'.

Then we must duel to the death, and the loser will admit that the winner's version of the Star Wars universe is the only true and correct one. Choose your weapon, sir.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
I prefer my SW gritty, not cimenatic.. which usually DOES stand for 'script immunity for heroes, all else suffers'.

Then we must duel to the death, and the loser will admit that the winner's version of the Star Wars universe is the only true and correct one. Choose your weapon, sir.


Rubber chickens, at 10 paces! 8) 8)
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
One idea I've tried is to use a FlaK value based on the skill, fire conrol, and combined fire rules and then use the Starship Maneuver Failure table from page 125. I replaced the normal collision damage with the normal weapon damage from the firing ship, The skids and spins represent evasion maneuvers to avoid being hit, and the collisions represented hits.


Interesting that you posted this, atgxtg, as I was going to suggest something almost exactly like this (modifying the Starship Maneuver Failure table). Great minds and all... Smile
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