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Shields and Scale Modifiers
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Shields and Scale Modifiers Reply with quote

In one of the Star Wars Adventure Journals, WEG had a FAQ chapter that addressed several issues, one of which was the application of scale modifiers to shields. The author specifically stated that, when shooting at a larger scale target, the scale modifier is applied to both the Hull and the Shield, in effect giving the ship a double scale modifier to resist damage if it has even +1 of shields up in the affected arc. What are your thoughts on this? Is it a fair rule? How have you changed it up if you use alternate shield rules?
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griff
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With hull and weapon damage is scaled I don't see why shields wouldn't be scaled as well. I would go with RAW.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would make a corellian corvette (4d hull 2d shields) have an effective 18D to soak SF scale weapons. 10d from hull and 8d with the scaled shields. I would say shields should NOT be scaled.
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Lane Arroway
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was suprised to read that myself a couple of years ago. How could such a rule go unmentioned in the rule book is beyond me. A capital ship with 4D shields could cover all sides and be fine against starfighters, seriously. I have and will continue to not apply the scale to shields.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, while they might have clarified it in print somewhere, I tend to think that was one person's interpretation. It certainly isn't something that's clear in the RAW.

I only apply the scale difference once, too (in other words, I do not apply them to shields).
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for applying scale modifier just once.

I'm also using a HR for shield distribution (ship has it's nominal shield value in all directions), so even Nebulon-B is pretty safe from starfighter scale lasers.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was the Adventure Journal pub. prior to R&E? Because that works under 2E die caps exactly as it should, ie. the damage is capped, the soak isn't scaled up so yes it applies to both (in 2E).
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vanir
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tupteq wrote:
+1 for applying scale modifier just once.

I'm also using a HR for shield distribution (ship has it's nominal shield value in all directions), so even Nebulon-B is pretty safe from starfighter scale lasers.


Our game uses a combination of 1E/RC and 2E rules for shields:
1. you can "angle the deflector shields" and split the dice per facing as in 2E RAW using a single action-declaration for the round vs all shots soaked. The shields stay at this setting until changed. Only the total shields value can be distributed among the firing arcs (eg. 1D shields can be split on up to 3 arcs but it will leave a 4th arc exposed for the round).
2. alternatively you can elect to use the shields as a reactionary skill with normal MAP, each shot soaked is another reactionary skill use during the round. If the attack roll is less than the Dodge/Manoeuvre + Shields-skill roll (with MAP), but greater than the Dodge/Manoeuvre roll then the full shields value adds to soak vs every shot succesfully deflected during the round, on any arc. If the attack roll is greater than both Dodge + Shields-skill then the shields don't add to soak at all for that shot, but might for the next.

As a bonus realism value the 1E/RC option also means that larger, multicrewed warships with a dedicated shields operator tend to be much more effective in using their shields in combat, even at the same shield strength as a one-man craft.
Conversely, it sounds pretty realistic that a one-man craft like a starfighter, the pilot would tend to, eg. "set the deflectors at full front" during a frontal attack with a single action, then concentrate on manoeuvring and shooting and conserve MAP for his attack declarations.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanir wrote:
Was the Adventure Journal pub. prior to R&E? Because that works under 2E die caps exactly as it should, ie. the damage is capped, the soak isn't scaled up so yes it applies to both (in 2E).


That is the most likely explanation, yes. I just got in off the road, so I'm a bit too tired to go thumbing through my AJ collection checking publication dates.
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griff
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading 2E it is not that the die pool for shields gets larger on a capital ship taking damage from a starfighter, or that the dice pool of the starfighter's weapons gets smaller. The starfighter's die rolls are capped at 3. So there is no increase or decrease in the number of dice, just that a smaller weapon can only do so much damage to a larger target.
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Darth Ginzain
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember though that missle weapons ignore shields. So if you're gonna shot a capital ship with your laser cannons, yea it gets a whole lotta scaling dice. Stick a torp up it's exhaust though and it might notice.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you getting that missiles ignore shields?
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Shields and Scale Modifiers Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
In one of the Star Wars Adventure Journals, WEG had a FAQ chapter that addressed several issues, one of which was the application of scale modifiers to shields. The author specifically stated that, when shooting at a larger scale target, the scale modifier is applied to both the Hull and the Shield, in effect giving the ship a double scale modifier to resist damage if it has even +1 of shields up in the affected arc. What are your thoughts on this? Is it a fair rule? How have you changed it up if you use alternate shield rules?


I think the actual intent was that shields are supposed to be on the same scale as a vehicle's Hull, not that the scaling mod is supposed to be applied twice.

If the modifier were applied twice, they could just as easiuly have said that the larger scale vehicle is immune to ray weapons from lower scale vehicles, as that is what the actual effect is. With 12D from scaling there is virtually no way a starfighter could damage a capital ship with a laser.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here is the reference. In Adventure Journal 15, pages 80-81, in the chapter ISB Intercepts by Eric Trautmann, the following conversation occurred:
Quote:
Q: When a larger scale vessel is hit by a smaller scale one, does the scale die modifier of the larger vessel apply to both the shield roll and the hull roll? For example, against a starfighter-scale proton torpedo (9D damage), would a Star Destroyer resist at 22D (7D hull + 6D capital-scale hull modifier + shields 3D + 6D capital-scale shields modifier)?

A: Yes, which gives you a fairly accurate idea of how difficult a Star Destroyer is to defeat. Bear in mind that it usually takes a squadron of X-Wings or other starfighters (all targeting the same spot on the Star Destroyer's shields) to penetrate the capital ship's defenses. Witness the Super Star Destroyer Executor in Return of the Jedi, which was well-nigh invulnerable until a lucky shot took out the vessel's bridge deflectors. Starfighters can take out capital ships, but it takes tremendous luck and skill, and most of the attacking starfighters won't be returning from the battle.


This was published in November of 1997, well after the release of 2R&E, so it obviously wasn't a hold-over from 2E, and is quite clear that the scale modifier (per one of the creators of the SW D6 RPG) is supposed to be applied twice.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, the quote also shows Trautmann's view on missiles vs. shields (specifically, that shields do block missiles and torpedoes).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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