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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | In the 40K lore the bolter is a hybrid weapon it works like a regular firearm to shoot the bolt and then once the projectile has traveled a set distance the gyrojet and mass sensor kicks in.
I suppose that means that unless the range is set to almost nothing targets that are in close will not have to worry about the explosive detonation. |
With the stats I wrote, I would say that is covered by the Wild Die rule.
| Esoomian wrote: | | The standard damage might be a little high in my mind given that a standard bolt has the same strength four that a shoota does and that is just an oversized machinegun. The bolter has a better AP rating and range than a shoota but the damage is the same. Remember a bolter should only successfully wound a basic guardsman two thirds of the time. |
I looked at it from the standard of bolters being more powerful than the other standard weapons in the galaxy. Lasguns and Autoguns are both Strength 3, while bolters are Strength 4, so if the standard Blaster Rifle (blaster weapon equivalent for purposes of the crossover) in the SWU inflicts 5D, a bolter's damage should be higher.
It is a very powerful weapon as written, but I tried to counter that by making it a very expensive one. As written, bolters are twice as expensive as equivalent blasters, and ammunition costs are even more extreme (20 credits per bullet). Costs for the even more specialized rounds would be even higher.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | In the 40K lore the bolter is a hybrid weapon it works like a regular firearm to shoot the bolt and then once the projectile has traveled a set distance the gyrojet and mass sensor kicks in.
I suppose that means that unless the range is set to almost nothing targets that are in close will not have to worry about the explosive detonation. |
With the stats I wrote, I would say that is covered by the Wild Die rule. |
I'd still probably make mention or make rules for someone being able to get in 'too close' for a bolter to be effective. Something like damage is reduced by 2D if the target is within melee range as there is insufficient time for the mass sensor to activate.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | The standard damage might be a little high in my mind given that a standard bolt has the same strength four that a shoota does and that is just an oversized machinegun. The bolter has a better AP rating and range than a shoota but the damage is the same. Remember a bolter should only successfully wound a basic guardsman two thirds of the time. |
I looked at it from the standard of bolters being more powerful than the other standard weapons in the galaxy. Lasguns and Autoguns are both Strength 3, while bolters are Strength 4, so if the standard Blaster Rifle (blaster weapon equivalent for purposes of the crossover) in the SWU inflicts 5D, a bolter's damage should be higher.
It is a very powerful weapon as written, but I tried to counter that by making it a very expensive one. As written, bolters are twice as expensive as equivalent blasters, and ammunition costs are even more extreme (20 credits per bullet). Costs for the even more specialized rounds would be even higher. |
Isn't a heavy blaster 5D and a standard blaster is 4D (I may be thinking of pistols though)? With a strength of 6D even with the 2D penalty for unexploded rounds you're still doing a respectible 4D damage. Given that something that is just a large (but still man portable) machinegun can do the same level of damage 6D just seems too high.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | With the stats I wrote, I would say that is covered by the Wild Die rule. |
I'd still probably make mention or make rules for someone being able to get in 'too close' for a bolter to be effective. Something like damage is reduced by 2D if the target is within melee range as there is insufficient time for the mass sensor to activate. |
Hmm. I'm on the fence with this one. I don't recall any specific reference in the Warhammer rules that backs what you've said. If you can provide me with a reference, that might help. I know Warhammer 40K (the early versions, at least) had specific rules about whether or not a weapon could be used in close combat, so while a bolter couldn't, a bolt pistol could. Tough call...
| Quote: | | Isn't a heavy blaster 5D and a standard blaster is 4D (I may be thinking of pistols though)? With a strength of 6D even with the 2D penalty for unexploded rounds you're still doing a respectible 4D damage. Given that something that is just a large (but still man portable) machinegun can do the same level of damage 6D just seems too high. |
I originally wrote up the stats for the Bolter, with the Blaster Rifle at 5D for comparison, so 6D was just the next numerical step up. I wrote up the stats for the Bolt Pistol and Heavy Bolter subsequent to that, and since I couldn't recall any specific mention of Bolt Pistols / Heavy Bolters firing larger or smaller ammunition than the standard bolter, I just went with the same ammo caliber (and stats) for all three weapons.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | With the stats I wrote, I would say that is covered by the Wild Die rule. |
I'd still probably make mention or make rules for someone being able to get in 'too close' for a bolter to be effective. Something like damage is reduced by 2D if the target is within melee range as there is insufficient time for the mass sensor to activate. |
Hmm. I'm on the fence with this one. I don't recall any specific reference in the Warhammer rules that backs what you've said. If you can provide me with a reference, that might help. I know Warhammer 40K (the early versions, at least) had specific rules about whether or not a weapon could be used in close combat, so while a bolter couldn't, a bolt pistol could. Tough call... |
To me the fact that you don't get to use a gun's strength in close combat at all makes it seem like this was the intent. Sure a space marine is strength four anyway so it makes no difference but for most other races once you get into close combat even the pistols which you can still use in close combat are of limited effectiveness. Besides it just makes logical sense that the mass sensor is disabled in the chamber so it doesn't explode before firing and that means that it probably has a minimum range to give the mass sensor time to kick in.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Quote: | | Isn't a heavy blaster 5D and a standard blaster is 4D (I may be thinking of pistols though)? With a strength of 6D even with the 2D penalty for unexploded rounds you're still doing a respectible 4D damage. Given that something that is just a large (but still man portable) machinegun can do the same level of damage 6D just seems too high. |
I originally wrote up the stats for the Bolter, with the Blaster Rifle at 5D for comparison, so 6D was just the next numerical step up. I wrote up the stats for the Bolt Pistol and Heavy Bolter subsequent to that, and since I couldn't recall any specific mention of Bolt Pistols / Heavy Bolters firing larger or smaller ammunition than the standard bolter, I just went with the same ammo caliber (and stats) for all three weapons. |
Heavy Bolters are strength five, AP four and heavy three so they actually fire bigger bolts than bolters and bolt pistols and they fire them more rapidly. The larger bolt size is also why a heavy bolter (by default) had more choice in ammunition types. It makes perfect sense for a Heavy Bolter to be strength six but not a bolter or bolt pistol. At least to me anyway.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | To me the fact that you don't get to use a gun's strength in close combat at all makes it seem like this was the intent. Sure a space marine is strength four anyway so it makes no difference but for most other races once you get into close combat even the pistols which you can still use in close combat are of limited effectiveness. Besides it just makes logical sense that the mass sensor is disabled in the chamber so it doesn't explode before firing and that means that it probably has a minimum range to give the mass sensor time to kick in. |
But that rule applies equally to lasguns, autoguns, etc, none of which fire ammunition that requires a sensor or a minimum range. To me, that is more indicative of a weapon being large and/or bulky enough that it can't be properly brought to bear against the target, except as an improvised melee weapon.
| Quote: | | Heavy Bolters are strength five, AP four and heavy three so they actually fire bigger bolts than bolters and bolt pistols and they fire them more rapidly. The larger bolt size is also why a heavy bolter (by default) had more choice in ammunition types. It makes perfect sense for a Heavy Bolter to be strength six but not a bolter or bolt pistol. At least to me anyway. |
I'm basing my conversion off the stats from the Warhammer 1E book (Rogue Trader). Both bolt pistols and boltguns are Strength 4 Damage 1, and the only differences in stats are in their range and usefulness at close range and in close combat. Heavy bolters are Strength 5 D4 Damage, 1" Slow, Heavy and Following Fire. I decided to make the added advantages of the heavy bolter be reflected in the weapon's auto-fire rating (2D as opposed to the boltgun's 1D), as well as adding the stipulation that the Heavy Bolter could not be moved and fired in the same round. It also simplified the ammunition procedure, as the ultimate goal will be to have individual prices for each shell type, and having two separate ammo costs (one for bolt guns/pistols and one for heavy bolters) just feels like more work than I feel like putting into the project.
EDIT: If anything, I should probably remove the 1D auto-fire rating from the standard boltgun, because the WH40K stats do not indicate a following fire capability.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I cant really see a bolter doing only 5D damage. At least 6D seems about right. Remember there are heavy blasters doing 6D and above.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I cant really see a bolter doing only 5D damage. At least 6D seems about right. Remember there are heavy blasters doing 6D and above. |
What's your take on the stats in general?
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | To me the fact that you don't get to use a gun's strength in close combat at all makes it seem like this was the intent. Sure a space marine is strength four anyway so it makes no difference but for most other races once you get into close combat even the pistols which you can still use in close combat are of limited effectiveness. Besides it just makes logical sense that the mass sensor is disabled in the chamber so it doesn't explode before firing and that means that it probably has a minimum range to give the mass sensor time to kick in. |
But that rule applies equally to lasguns, autoguns, etc, none of which fire ammunition that requires a sensor or a minimum range. To me, that is more indicative of a weapon being large and/or bulky enough that it can't be properly brought to bear against the target, except as an improvised melee weapon. |
Sure but you have to remember 40K even Rogue Trader with it's plethora of rules is designed for mass combat so they simplify things as much as possible. At the very least all the fluff surrounding the bolter says that the bolter's propellant charge is timed to ignite after it clears the gun.
| Quote: | Standard Bolter Round
Bolter ammunition (a bolt) is primarily a solid .75 calibre slug. Conventional solid slugs utilise a propellant charge contained in a casing that, when ignited, forces the bullet out of the barrel. In contrast, a bolt is self-propelled; it features its own integrated solid propellant that propels the bolt at high speeds, essentially acting like a miniature rocket. The propellant itself is shaped to control the bolt's direction and speed; however, this method of rocket propulsion would normally warp the barrel due to gas pressure. The Bolter uses an ingenious method to prevent this.
As well as the rocket propellant, a tiny amount of conventional charge is also utilised. This charge is just strong enough to force the bolt out of the barrel and ignite the bolt's propellant. The rocket-propellant is carefully fused to ignite just after leaving the barrel, alleviating any possibility of pressure build-up. The bolt then accelerates away towards the target under its own power. |
To me this indicates that a close range target is going to be hit with much less force than one far away. Remember unlike a bullet a bolt is constantly accellerating so the further it travels the more impact it has.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | Heavy Bolters are strength five, AP four and heavy three so they actually fire bigger bolts than bolters and bolt pistols and they fire them more rapidly. The larger bolt size is also why a heavy bolter (by default) had more choice in ammunition types. It makes perfect sense for a Heavy Bolter to be strength six but not a bolter or bolt pistol. At least to me anyway. |
I'm basing my conversion off the stats from the Warhammer 1E book (Rogue Trader). Both bolt pistols and boltguns are Strength 4 Damage 1, and the only differences in stats are in their range and usefulness at close range and in close combat. Heavy bolters are Strength 5 D4 Damage, 1" Slow, Heavy and Following Fire. I decided to make the added advantages of the heavy bolter be reflected in the weapon's auto-fire rating (2D as opposed to the boltgun's 1D), as well as adding the stipulation that the Heavy Bolter could not be moved and fired in the same round. It also simplified the ammunition procedure, as the ultimate goal will be to have individual prices for each shell type, and having two separate ammo costs (one for bolt guns/pistols and one for heavy bolters) just feels like more work than I feel like putting into the project.
EDIT: If anything, I should probably remove the 1D auto-fire rating from the standard boltgun, because the WH40K stats do not indicate a following fire capability. |
I'd remove the autofire to be sure but even the 1st ed stats have the heavy bolter being more powerful than the bolter and bolt pistol and that doesn't seem to be just down to rate of fire because the Heavy bolter also has a higher rate of fire.
Perhaps drop the bolter and bolt pistol to strength 5 and leave the heavy bolter at strength 6.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | To me this indicates that a close range target is going to be hit with much less force than one far away. Remember unlike a bullet a bolt is constantly accellerating so the further it travels the more impact it has. |
Perhaps, but to me, it presupposes that the rocket boost takes a while to accelerate, when that is not necessarily the case. It could be a quick-burning, high-thrust gyro jet that accelerates to maximum velocity within a matter of a meter or less. Ultimately, you may modify the stats however you wish, but I think I'm going to leave it as is.
| Quote: | I'd remove the autofire to be sure but even the 1st ed stats have the heavy bolter being more powerful than the bolter and bolt pistol and that doesn't seem to be just down to rate of fire because the Heavy bolter also has a higher rate of fire.
Perhaps drop the bolter and bolt pistol to strength 5 and leave the heavy bolter at strength 6. |
No, I'm going to leave the damage as is, and take the auto-fire rating away from the standard bolter. Using the auto-fire rules that I work with, the Heavy Bolter gunner can add up to 2D to either his To Hit roll or his Damage roll, which to me is a pretty good representation of a heavy bolter inflicting more damage and having following fire capability.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Isnt a lasgun S3 in 40K? A bolter is S4 anyway as pointed out.
That should men S3=5D damage (blaster rifle). As +1S in the 40k system is a significant increase in damage I think 6D damage for the Bolter sits about right. Remember, wiht no special ammo, the +1D resistance vs physical most armour has would make the bolter puny at 5D damage. Id say 6D is the minimum. That would make Heavy Bolters 7D, plus 1D-2D autofire.
Regarding autofire. Im not really satisfied with the idea that you can apply it to damage at long range as shooting such concentrated fire on autofire at long range seems a bit ott. In my games you have to split the Autofire bonus dice between 'to hit' and 'damage' at medium range (if uneven they add firstly to 'to hit'), and they all go into 'to hit' at long range.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Isnt a lasgun S3 in 40K? A bolter is S4 anyway as pointed out.
That should men S3=5D damage (blaster rifle). As +1S in the 40k system is a significant increase in damage I think 6D damage for the Bolter sits about right. Remember, wiht no special ammo, the +1D resistance vs physical most armour has would make the bolter puny at 5D damage. Id say 6D is the minimum. That would make Heavy Bolters 7D, plus 1D-2D autofire. |
That was my thinking on the bolter. I kept the Heavy Bolter at 6D w/ 2D autofire primarily for commonality of ammunition (since I plan on putting price tags on all the specialty shells), but if you feel like 7D works better, that's OK.
| Quote: | | Regarding autofire. Im not really satisfied with the idea that you can apply it to damage at long range as shooting such concentrated fire on autofire at long range seems a bit ott. In my games you have to split the Autofire bonus dice between 'to hit' and 'damage' at medium range (if uneven they add firstly to 'to hit'), and they all go into 'to hit' at long range. |
Seems fair.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | To me this indicates that a close range target is going to be hit with much less force than one far away. Remember unlike a bullet a bolt is constantly accellerating so the further it travels the more impact it has. |
Perhaps, but to me, it presupposes that the rocket boost takes a while to accelerate, when that is not necessarily the case. It could be a quick-burning, high-thrust gyro jet that accelerates to maximum velocity within a matter of a meter or less. Ultimately, you may modify the stats however you wish, but I think I'm going to leave it as is. |
That seems contrary to how a Gyrojet works
| Quote: | The Gyrojet is a family of unique firearms developed in the 1960s named for the method of gyroscopically stabilizing its projectiles. Rather than inert bullets, Gyrojets fire small rockets called Microjets which have little recoil and do not require a heavy barrel to resist the pressure of the combustion gases. Velocity on leaving the tube was very low, but increased to around 1,250 feet per second (380 m/s) at 30 feet (9.1 m). The result is a very lightweight weapon
The inherent difference between a conventional firearm and a rocket is that the projectile of a conventional firearm builds up to its maximum speed in the barrel of the firearm, then slows down over its trajectory; the rocket continues to accelerate as long as the fuel burns, then continues its flight like an un-powered bullet. A bullet has maximum kinetic energy at the muzzle; a rocket has maximum kinetic energy immediately after its fuel is expended. The burn time for a Gyrojet rocket has been reported as 1/10 of a second by a Bathroom Reader's Institute book and as 0.12 seconds by "The 'DeathWind' Project."
The rocket leaves the barrel with low energy, and accelerates until the fuel is exhausted at about 60 feet (18 metres), at which point the rocket has a velocity of about 1250 feet per second (FPS), slightly greater than Mach one, with about 50% more energy than the common .45 ACP round |
At the very least unlike normal firearms pressing the barrel of a bolter to someone's head and pulling the trigger is likely to cause far less damage (and potentially have a catastrophic failure).
Additionally
| http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_weapon wrote: | | The explosive warhead within the bolt is triggered by a mass-reactive detonator; any sudden increase in local mass triggers the explosive, causing the weapon to explode inside the target. This can have a gruesome effect on the target, often killing them in a single shot as their chest cavity or head is blown apart, while simultaneous hits can render the corpse unidentifiable. However, the detonator has a minimum arming distance, during which it will not arm the warhead. At point-blank ranges the bolt will instead pass through the target and explode behind it, though its sheer size and velocity still makes it capable of causing damage |
| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | I'd remove the autofire to be sure but even the 1st ed stats have the heavy bolter being more powerful than the bolter and bolt pistol and that doesn't seem to be just down to rate of fire because the Heavy bolter also has a higher rate of fire.
Perhaps drop the bolter and bolt pistol to strength 5 and leave the heavy bolter at strength 6. |
No, I'm going to leave the damage as is, and take the auto-fire rating away from the standard bolter. Using the auto-fire rules that I work with, the Heavy Bolter gunner can add up to 2D to either his To Hit roll or his Damage roll, which to me is a pretty good representation of a heavy bolter inflicting more damage and having following fire capability. |
I still think this is probably the wrong choice.
| http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_weapon wrote: | | Heavy Bolters fire a larger round with extra propellant, giving them superior range and hitting power to hand-held bolters and bolt pistols. |
The heavy bolter is the only varient that can fire hellfire shells (different from hellfire bolts which lack the blast template) this is due to it's size. It is also noteworthy that the heavy bolter's rapid fire is somewhat dependant on it's amunition. The hellfire shell only allows one shot per round.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | I cant really see a bolter doing only 5D damage. At least 6D seems about right. Remember there are heavy blasters doing 6D and above. |
What's your take on the stats in general? |
Found very old stats...
| Code: |
Weapon Dam. Ammo Range Cost Avail
Vulcan Arms .75 Boltgun. 7D 12, 250Cr 3-25/75/150 2500 4, X
Explosive rounds. Req. 4D to use. Each add. shot -1D to hit.
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Hmm, cant find my rules for Explosive ammo. I think they were less effective against armour in some way (hence the high damage).
[/code]
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | That seems contrary to how a Gyrojet works
At the very least unlike normal firearms pressing the barrel of a bolter to someone's head and pulling the trigger is likely to cause far less damage (and potentially have a catastrophic failure). |
Sigh. Stat writing was simpler with a smaller pool of evidence...
On first glance, your references seem somewhat contradictory. If a gyrojet-based weapon has a low muzzle velocity that accelerates to full velocity within 10 meters of leaving the barrel, but a bolter still packs sufficient force to punch straight through a human body before detonating on the other side, then the initial jettisoning charge must still be relatively powerful. Considering I already have a rule in place to cover a bolt punching through a target without detonating (unconfirmed Wild Die result means a 1 in 6 chance that any round fired will punch through without detonating, reducing damage by 2D), I'm not sure I see the need to modify it.
| Esoomian wrote: | I still think this is probably the wrong choice.
| http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_weapon wrote: | | Heavy Bolters fire a larger round with extra propellant, giving them superior range and hitting power to hand-held bolters and bolt pistols. |
The heavy bolter is the only varient that can fire hellfire shells (different from hellfire bolts which lack the blast template) this is due to it's size. It is also noteworthy that the heavy bolter's rapid fire is somewhat dependant on it's amunition. The hellfire shell only allows one shot per round. |
Is this a new rule? I can't find mention of it in my 3E and 4E sourcebooks for Space Marines. Honestly, there have been so many rule changes to WH40K that I'm not sure what to include and what to exclude. 1E Rogue Trader was more like a hybrid of RPG and table-top, which (IMO) makes the conversion rules easier, but as the various WH40K versions have progressed, the RPG aspect has been pretty well phased out. I'm rambling because I'm tired and I don't feel like changing anything right now...
EDIT: I can almost see the need for two types; a Heavy Bolter with the stats as written to provide fire support ala the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon in the US Army / Marines, and a larger weapon called a Bolter Cannon which fires heavier ammunition, including the Helfire round you are describing...
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | That seems contrary to how a Gyrojet works
At the very least unlike normal firearms pressing the barrel of a bolter to someone's head and pulling the trigger is likely to cause far less damage (and potentially have a catastrophic failure). |
Sigh. Stat writing was simpler with a smaller pool of evidence... |
Yes, though on the plus side many sources can make for a more complete feel.
| crmcneill wrote: | | On first glance, your references seem somewhat contradictory. If a gyrojet-based weapon has a low muzzle velocity that accelerates to full velocity within 10 meters of leaving the barrel, but a bolter still packs sufficient force to punch straight through a human body before detonating on the other side, then the initial jettisoning charge must still be relatively powerful. Considering I already have a rule in place to cover a bolt punching through a target without detonating (unconfirmed Wild Die result means a 1 in 6 chance that any round fired will punch through without detonating, reducing damage by 2D), I'm not sure I see the need to modify it. |
Yes that is because one source is based on real world gyrojets and the other is based on fictitious technology so it only really has to stay true to the rule of cool. I considered snipping the bolter source down to leave out the contradiction but I decided I didn't want to be the sort of guy to alter my 'facts' to seem more right. What I took from those two sources was that the muzzle velocity of a bolter should be fairly low and while a close range hit could still punch through soft tissue it wouldn't be certain and it wouldn't explode.
To me the solution is fairly obvious if fired at point blank range (1-3 metres) then the damage is automatically reduced by 2D and a complication on the wild dice becomes a catastrophic failure as the bolt ends up ignighting in the breach and warping the gun barrel (or something similar). Because all the technology is in the ammo and the gun is basically just a flimsy tube (gyrojets don't need the strength to withstand a typical bullet launch) I'd lower the price of the guns but keep the ammo the same.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | I still think this is probably the wrong choice.
| http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_weapon wrote: | | Heavy Bolters fire a larger round with extra propellant, giving them superior range and hitting power to hand-held bolters and bolt pistols. |
The heavy bolter is the only varient that can fire hellfire shells (different from hellfire bolts which lack the blast template) this is due to it's size. It is also noteworthy that the heavy bolter's rapid fire is somewhat dependant on it's amunition. The hellfire shell only allows one shot per round. |
Is this a new rule? I can't find mention of it in my 3E and 4E sourcebooks for Space Marines. Honestly, there have been so many rule changes to WH40K that I'm not sure what to include and what to exclude. 1E Rogue Trader was more like a hybrid of RPG and table-top, which (IMO) makes the conversion rules easier, but as the various WH40K versions have progressed, the RPG aspect has been pretty well phased out. I'm rambling because I'm tired and I don't feel like changing anything right now...
EDIT: I can almost see the need for two types; a Heavy Bolter with the stats as written to provide fire support ala the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon in the US Army / Marines, and a larger weapon called a Bolter Cannon which fires heavier ammunition, including the Helfire round you are describing... |
There are a lot of rules for 40K and the numerous codexes do not help. The hellfire shell is something only scouts can do because they're sometimes called upon to sneak into a tyranid hive node and disrupt things. Technically all heavy bolters could do it but only the scouts get supplied the shells.
With your edit I think you'd be better off making what you call the Heavy Bolter into the Storm Bolter which fires the same caliber as the other bolt pistol and bolter but fires more rapidly and having a different statline for the Heavy Bolter to represent the larger bolts it fires.
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