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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | *whew* Difficulty 51 for 4x? Pretty high! Considering they say that a slicer can break into the emperor's personal data files with a 31 on their computer programming/repair check. If you follow the guidelines in 2nd Ed. R&E
| Quote: | | Heroic: Information that only a select few individuals would know. The location of all of Emperor Palpatine's secret weapons vaults. |
| Quote: | | Heroic: Finding extremely rare merchandise which normally wouldn't be available, even under the best of circumstances. Finding a lightsaber for sale on the black market. |
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Sometimes i felt what the book lists for what heroic base level can get was a little stupid. If palpaltine had his secret vaults all discoverable by just a simple heroic roll on its own, then most of the source book listed NPCS for the rebellion should be able to find them (as there are several in the rebel alliance source book as well as rules of engagement and crakens that had 8d computer skill.
Some game masters choose to allow players 1 or the other, either character points or a piece of rare gear.
For me, if there's a player who really wants to pick up some piece of gear which would give them a distinct advantage over everyone else, I make the player go through many hoops to achieve their goal. Also, it's imperative to keep in mind the difference between player & character knowledge; your player may want a piece of rare nifty gear, but does the character even know that it exists? If no, you can tell your player that you'll keep it in mind and maybe plant some breadcrumbs for his character to discover the existence of said equipment. Then, if he picks up on them, it will likely take him quite some time to track down where he might be able to acquire it, and then finally there's either the heist or having to brave some sort of black market deal that goes way south, and he has to fight off folks trying to heist his gear!
Maybe he fights them off, maybe he doesn't, if not then he maybe has to track down the group who stole his merchandise. If he does get rid of them, maybe the group marks him for death, still determined to get that piece of tech at all costs. Maybe next time they'll send an expert bounty hunter or an elite mercenary team for retrieval. This is still on the table if he manages to pull of a heist of his own and steal it, as the original buyer or owner may want to come after him. Keeping rare and exciting gear should be a quest all its own.
Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to get at, is that sometimes the best investment that a player or character can make is time. Having someone go on an epic quest is more fun for everyone, you just need to find the right balance between too easy and too hard. Which is totally subjective for every group.[/quote] | Quote: |
For me, if there's a player who really wants to pick up some piece of gear which would give them a distinct advantage over everyone else, I make the player go through many hoops to achieve their goal. Also, it's imperative to keep in mind the difference between player & character knowledge; your player may want a piece of rare nifty gear, but does the character even know that it exists? |
Exactly. Take my prior character in sparks. I (player) Knew that Corsuca gems are one of the most pricy ones around and the Yavin gas giant is one spot to mine them, but my character (an old republic scout turned sniper) didn't.. So i had to spend 2 (what our group refers to as) personal initiatives finding information on what the gems are usually sold for, where they naturally form etc.. THEN i had to make a third PI to get droids suitable to fish them out, and finally a 4th PI to go get them..
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Hyfigh
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Please don't get me wrong here, but everyone has different GM methods. I personally don't like to take the time to let a player go off on a tangent adventure to obtain the special item. I have five players in my group and it becomes complex enough when they split up to do smaller tasks that are already directly main-adventure related... It ultimately means that some of them have to sit back while the others play, then swtich off. I enjoy keeping the action going so that no one feels left out. Likewise, as I'd mentioned, I become too liberal with my items. If I'm sending someone on an individual quest I want it to be well worth their while.
Here's part of my point with all of this: part of what makes a character is their items. Sure, Han is skilled with a blaster, suave, and has a Wookie buddy... But what is Han without his heavy blaster pistol and the Falcon? What about Bobba? Is he really Bobba without his armor and signature sawn-off blaster rifle? Why wouldn't these more-or-less signature items be considered literally part of the character?
I've had some time to number crunch with D6 Powers and I think the system works. A Blaster Pistol (just a vanilla model 4D damage no perks) would cost a character about 4CP. To me, that seems a worthwhile investment given what it is that makes it a blaster pistol. Think of it this way: you could invest in Brawling and have some degree of damage... But it's strictly melee which puts you, generally, at a higher risk in combat. By spending 4CP you're getting ranged damage that is likely comparable (perhaps a little higher) to your Brawling damage.
I just can't justify to myself not making my players put some form of investment in the items. There is nothing wrong with requiring this investment and requiring them to still adventure for it. Needing to use Streetwise, Knowledge, etc would make the player appreciate what they have even more.
I'm a "game mechanics" nut, though, so I have literally pages of rules running through my head on how all of this crunch will work. Yea, yea: "you said you don't like to take time". I do my crunch on my own time.
Edit: I corrected my blaster CP cost.
Last edited by Hyfigh on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Without the cool tech, some characters just are not as 'memorable' or good.
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Crell Damar
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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True, but even looking at Boba Fett's or Han Solo's blasters, they're not exactly game breaking.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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That is correct they are not that game breaking. Anyone can own a DL44 (han's blaster). BUT look at boba's armor. 3d full physical? Come on that armor barely covers his torso and upper legs.. let alone the full body.
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Hyfigh
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Just an update for any interested:
I implemented the system. It took a while to get weapons down, but once I had them on paper and all hashed out... The system works amazingly well. So well, in fact, that I've started using the system to work my Force powers. Basically, all I've done is created baselines for the common weaponry. I then just make adjustments as the characters go. They want to upgrade? It's cost Character Points for increases to die codes, or penalty buy-off's. The ultimate benefit that I've had is that I no longer have to arbitrarily dictate when someone gets something. If they want it built, the character needs to invest in it along with me being able to push them to adventure for it. It's been a win-win for me; especially for balance between everyone.
Edit: If anyone wants to see the work I'd be happy to email them what I've got. Just PM me your email.
Edit2: Come to think of it, I can certainly provide examples within the thread if anyone requests... |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | *whew* Difficulty 51 for 4x? Pretty high! Considering they say that a slicer can break into the emperor's personal data files with a 31 on their computer programming/repair check. If you follow the guidelines in 2nd Ed. R&E
| Quote: | | Heroic: Information that only a select few individuals would know. The location of all of Emperor Palpatine's secret weapons vaults. |
| Quote: | | Heroic: Finding extremely rare merchandise which normally wouldn't be available, even under the best of circumstances. Finding a lightsaber for sale on the black market. |
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I say this, but I'd point out that if you wanted added difficulty, it might be worth another difficulty level or two to find the item without attracting unwanted attention.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Sometimes i felt what the book lists for what heroic base level can get was a little stupid. If palpaltine had his secret vaults all discoverable by just a simple heroic roll on its own, then most of the source book listed NPCS for the rebellion should be able to find them (as there are several in the rebel alliance source book as well as rules of engagement and crakens that had 8d computer skill. |
The problem here is as much that some of the published stats are too high as the difficulties are low. Probably the former more than the latter...
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4834
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Hyfigh wrote: | Just an update for any interested:
I implemented the system. It took a while to get weapons down, but once I had them on paper and all hashed out... The system works amazingly well. So well, in fact, that I've started using the system to work my Force powers. Basically, all I've done is created baselines for the common weaponry. I then just make adjustments as the characters go. They want to upgrade? It's cost Character Points for increases to die codes, or penalty buy-off's. The ultimate benefit that I've had is that I no longer have to arbitrarily dictate when someone gets something. If they want it built, the character needs to invest in it along with me being able to push them to adventure for it. It's been a win-win for me; especially for balance between everyone.
Edit: If anyone wants to see the work I'd be happy to email them what I've got. Just PM me your email.
Edit2: Come to think of it, I can certainly provide examples within the thread if anyone requests... |
That might be interesting to dissect. If I sent you a PM would you mind if I posted it on my 4shared for the rest of the board to review without you having to send out 20 different e-mails?
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Hyfigh
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | That might be interesting to dissect. If I sent you a PM would you mind if I posted it on my 4shared for the rest of the board to review without you having to send out 20 different e-mails? |
By all means. You just want me to PM it to you now?
Edit: Are you familiar with Powers D6? If not, I can help you along with how things work for each of the pieces of gear. |
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Tupteq
Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Rzeszów, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: |
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My 2 cents in the subject.
I use RAW for gear improvement, but the player has to always spend at least 1CP for upgrade roll. It normally adds an extra die, but also represents personal engagement of character.
I also require step-by-step improvement (+1, then +2, then +1D...), so to upgrade a blaster damage by +1D, player needs to spend at least 3CPs.
I also often require CP expenditure when upgrades aren't covered by upgrade rules (e.g. adding a sensor array or jetpack to the armor), but I allow grouping more than one such upgrade in one roll with higher difficulty (installing a scope and stock to a blaster require just one Moderate blaster repair roll and one CP).
Sometimes (if properly explained by player) I allow modifications that change more than one aspect of the object. For example replace a barrel in blaster by longer and heavier one requires one roll (and 1CP), but changes many stats: fire rate is reduced, range raised, body strength increased.
Occasionally I let players to upgrade something just for money, but it usually cost more than it's worth (but doesn't require using CPs).
I don't allow upgrading lightsaber damage using rules above, I have different rules for lightsabers. |
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