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Posted by Thrawn on 1 November 2000 04:50 AM

Question

My players have a normal Nebulon-B frigate.
And now they want to improve it.

They want heavier weapons, lesser crew and better shielding.
Money is not an issue. They have an income of 10 million a month.

Could you give me some good stats on a modified Nebulon B


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Posted by Azrael Turrne on 1 November 2000 10:50 AM

The Nebulon-D Frigate was a modified version of the Nebulon-B Frigate.
It combined speed and firepower to make a deadly combination. It boasted greater starfighter capabilities and cargo space. It also was given more firepower than the Nebulon-B Frigate. Instead of the single tower at the
rear quarter, it had a V tower set-up allowing better maneuverability.
Also, the New Republic had captured blueprints to the Nebulon-D Frigate and have started construction on there own models.

Note: Only differance between Imperial and New Republic Versions are
starfighter complements.

Craft: Kuat Drive Yards Nebulon-D Modified Frigate
Type: Attack and Support Frigate
Scale: Capital
Length: 225 meters
Crew Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery 4D+1, Capital Ship Piloting 5D,Capital
Ship Shields 4D+2, Sensors 4D, Astrogation 4D
Crew: 5,430; Gunners: 119, Skeleton: 590
Passengers: 150 (Troops)
Cargo Capicity: 175 metric tons
Consumbles: 1 Year
Cost: 7.5 million
Hyperdrive Mulitplier: x2
Hyperdrive Backup: x10
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverabilty: 1D+2
Space: 5
Hull: 4D
Shields: 2D+2
Sensors:
Passive: 75/1D
Scan: 150/2D
Search: 300/3D
Focus: 5/4D
Weapons:
25 Turbolaser Cannons
Fire Arc: 15 Front, 5 Left, 5 Right
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range:1-10/50/75
Atmosphere Range: 3-60/300/1.5km
Damage: 5D
25 Laser Cannons
Fire Arc: 10 Front, 5 Left, 5 Right, 5 Back
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 1-10/50/75
Atomsphere Range: 3-60/300/1.5km
Damage: 4D
20 Ion Cannons
Fire Arc: 5 Front, 5 Left, 5 Right, 5 Back
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 1-10/50/75
Atomsphere Range: 3-60/300/1.5km
Damage: 4D
4 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: 2 Front, 1 Left, 1 Right
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 1-3/8/16
Atomsphere Range: 3-60/800/1.6km
Damage: 7D
4 Tractor Beams
Fire Arc: 2 Front, 1 Left, 1 Right
Skill: Capital ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 1-3/5/10
Atomsphere Range: 100-300/500/1km
Damage: 5D

Starfighter Compelment:
Imperial 48 Starfighters

12 Tie Bombers
24 Tie Interceptors
12 Tie Advanced

Other Ships:
4 Gamma Class Assault shuttles
4 Sentinel Landing Craft
4 Escort Shuttles

New Republic 48 Starfighters

24 E-Wings
12 B-Wings
12 K-Wings

Other Ships:
8 Escort Shuttles
4 Skipray Blastboats

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Posted by Chris Curtis on 1 November 2000 11:42 AM

10 million a month?!?!?! Doesn't that take all the challenge and fun out of it? I mean, I thought my own character was bad because he ran a business that made a couple millon a quarter - most of which he couldn't use anyway. To each there own, I suppose, but I would certainly look into cutting their income way down...

As to the modifications:

Extensive modifications like you're talking about are going to require correspondingly extensive facilities. These types of things aren't going to be done just by the characters. Most of the facilities that would be able to perform the mods would also be heavily monitored by the Empire, New Republic, or whatever other local government/controlling organization exists. If the characters would rather not be noticed by the authorities (and wouldn't all characters?), then this could well be a problem.

We'll assume that the characters somehow have access to the necessary facilities. If they want to lessen the crew requirements there are basically two ways to do it, both expensive. The first is to purchase a whole slew of droids designed to be able to perform ship-board functions that would otherwise be done by normal living crew members. Many of these wouldn't be commonly available droids, though. Not only would this cut down on the number of live/sapient crew members needed, but it would also cut the number to about half the original overall since crew rotations would no longer be needed for most of the positions. Of course, you'd still have droids walking around all over the ship.

The second option would be to really automate most of the ship functions. Multiple computer cores could be installed throughout the ship and interfaces set up with localized systems to allow these cores to perform the normal duties on the ship. This method might not be able to "replace" quite as many crew members as the first, but it would have the advantage of being much less intrusive. However, it would also be much more difficult to implement.

Likely, a combination of the two methods would be the best solution. A well implemented combination would probably reduce the crew requirements to about a third of normal, but the cost would be extreme.

As far as upgrading the weapons and shielding, standard rules should work well for those. Just remember that unless the new systems are installed by real engineers, they will almost certainly be more troublesome than the systems they replace.

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Posted by Drake al-Thor on 1 November 2000 03:07 PM

As for the cash deal my charcter had 70 credits in his bank account at the time he was frozen in stasis we figured it out and he could legally go window shopping at Kuat Drive Yards or Bilbrigi or any other starship manufacturing firm and get a way with it.oh by the way he was frozen during ToJ so that is 4,000 yrs which causes an overflow on my calc at just one credit so it is rediculouis and my Gm approved it so his fault. The mods would require a new ship design just so you know.
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Posted by Trevor on 1 November 2000 06:11 PM

Just to mention, can you imagine the inflation over 4000 years!!!
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Posted by The Admiral on 2 November 2000 10:29 PM

I imagine that most finnacial institutions would freeze the account after a period of time. Many bank accounts go 'inactive' if the bank cannot locate you after a period of time. But, as you said, your Gm approved it, so it's his fault,,, ;-)


Posted by Thrawn on 3 November 2000 06:28 AM

Smile

The 10 million is after they had payed their crew, and most of the money is used to buy supplies and weapons, for their ships.
My players have a fully operational shipyard, 10 action VI transports.
And a small complement of repair and construction droids (about 1 million of them)
they had at on time 40 transports, but most was captured during Thrawn´s campain.

The Nebulon-D looks nice. But they want to cut the crew in half for the Nebulon-B and the D has more then 5000 crew members.

Chris. could you come up with some stats and maybe the cost for this.

Thanks





[Edited by Thrawn on 3 November 2000 at 06:31 AM]
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Posted by Chris Curtis on 3 November 2000 01:04 PM

Okay, some guidelines for the crew reduction... Please keep in mind that I'm doing this on-the-fly with no reference material handy or anything. I'll assume that you'd want to go for the second option I proposed - the combined computer core/droid approach.

This modification would probably take up the resources of most of the shipyard; it requires extensive reqorking of large portions of the interior of the ship and thus is a very involved effort.

The first thing the characters would need to do is somehow obtain the necessary computer cores and supporting equipment, including droids. These are going to be pretty rare and difficult to find as well as expensive since it is an uncommon and very advanced system. Through legitmate means, it would probably take a couple of months to assemble the required components as well as obtain any necessary legal permits/waivers/etc. By illegitimate means, it may take just as long or longer since even physically locating the equipment would be very difficult.

Engineers and workers with the necessary skill will also be needed. A modification such as this would probably be beyond the capability of many of the normal shipyard crew. So you'll have to locate and hire workers who are experts in installing large-scale computer/droid cores and integrating them with a wide variety of subsystems. Figure that the main ones would need an (A) xxx Engineering skill of at least 5D (where "xxx" could be Computer, Droid, System, Integration, etc). These experts won't be cheap to hire.

While the equipment is being gathered, these experts will be designing the actual system. They'll need to figure out where to physically situate the equipment, how to integrate the controls into subsystems, and how the whole system will be controled. This would take at least a couple of months.

With the crew hired, the plans made, and the equipment gathered, the actual modification could be started. Systems will be ripped out of the frigate and the computer cores installed in that space. Other areas will have to be moved or redesigned to make accomodations. Interfaces will be installed with subsystems throughout the ship - from life-support, to gunnery, to engineering.


All told, the entire operation would probably take no less than 6 months and very likely more. In addition, it could cost upwards of 4 million credits.

However, once completed, the crew requirement would be cut to about one-third of the original. With the computer cores and droids controlling much of the shipboard functions, you could assume most operations to be performed with a skill of about 5D.


Damn, this turned into a veritable essay. Sorry about the length, but in reality the above is a very condensed and simplified view of what would really be required. Hope this helped.

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Posted by Trevor on 4 November 2000 02:44 PM

Some mods that I think would improve you ships combat capability-
1. Add 4-6 ion cannons, which are always useful
2. Replace the 2D lasers with 5D twin lasers, and add 2-4
more twin lasers on top of that.
3. Add 2 more turbolasers.
4. Add 1 more Tractor Beam.
5. Do a general overhaul of shields, sensors, hull and engines(both hyperdrive and realspace)

Some of these mods will require a slightly larger crew, but combined with the crew reduction mentioned above, you'll still have smaller crew then when you started.
Same with room for the new equipment, the removed crew quarters, galleys, heads, and supply rooms will provide more then enough space to put these mods in.
Price would be high, but that doesn't seem to be a problem here. Some of the mods could be done while the computer cores were being installed, but most could only be done after.
Anyway just my two cents worth.
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Posted by Magnus_Rexif on 5 November 2000 12:51 AM

Lightbulb

while you are modifying the ship as stated by chris you could consider putting redundant sheilds and comp. systems in. and chris's idea of using a combo of comps and droids is better than droids alone not just because of sheer numbers but do you know how much that many oil baths would cost??
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Posted by Merc384 on 5 November 2000 12:21 PM

Ok here it is ....

Structure ....
Take the normal Nebulon-B, have them remove the connector rod and add another one but seperate them to the sides and make them connect in the front like a V shape if looking down at the top where the front of the Neb-B is the Bottom. This will add much more room for weapons located along the long connector rods. I have a picture that JRL3001 made for me of my one salvaged Neb-b, Maurader Corvettte, along with engines galore. That could be an idea for making modifications.

As for the crew ....
Complete a series of adventures obtaining computer cores and slice into a station core controlling all of the vital areas. Or they can just buy a program to comibne all of the cores together with one core controlling each aspect of the ship (weapons, enigines, shields, navigation {sub-space}, navigation {hyperspace}) This will add for a lessr crew since many areas are controlled by computers now.

For the Weapons ...
If they wish the can try to add a gravity well generator onto the two connector rods. This will require a much more powerful power source and prbly more crew. However they can add banks of turbolasers and Ion batteries onto the connector rods as well. they can prbly hold at least 6 battries each. If you sticking with one that's on each side so at least twelve altogether.

That's all I can think of for now.
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Posted by Lokar on 12 November 2000 01:15 AM

I just got one of those ideas that come from late night thinking. How about a Gravity Well Projector. It could really make a difference to a raider. No need to tractor in asteriods when you can reate you own roadblock and keep it.
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Posted by Lokar on 12 November 2000 01:18 AM

Another idea, a dozen or so quad laser cannons for starfighter protection and tatical computer that would help in cordinating the fire control systems. Maybe even a C3 computer if you are using the ship to command a small force.
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Posted by Kayle Skolaris on 12 November 2000 01:50 AM

Suggestion Number One: Sell that piece of junk and buy a real warship. I personally suggest a Hapes Nova Battlecruiser.

Suggestion Number Two: Refit it to these standards...


Craft: Hapan Consortium Hapes Nova-Class Battlecruiser

Type: Modified Assault Frigate

Scale: Capital

Length: 400 meters

Skill: Capital Ship Piloting: Hapes Nova

Crew: 1,700; Gunners: 152

Passengers: 400 troops and support personnel

Cargo Capacity: 400 metric tons

Consumables: 1 Month

Cost: 50 million credits as equipped and modified

Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1 (modified)

Hyperdrive Backup: x2 (Scavenged from Corellian Gunship)

Nav Computer: Yes (With 2 backups)

Maneuverability: 3D (2D on the secondary core or 1D on the tertiary core)

Space: 8 (6 on the secondary power core or 4 on the tertiary core)

Hull: 6D (modified)

Shields: 3D* (modified)
*Hapes Nova cruisers carry a set of backup shields (4D) similar to Mon Calamari cruisers. When a die of shields is lost, the shield operator can make an Easy Capital Ship Shields skill roll to restore shields to the full 3D

Sensors:
Passive: 50/1D (37/1D for secondary array)
Search: 68/3D (75/2D for secondary array)
Scan: 100/3D+2 (112/3D for secondary array)
Focus: 6/4D (4/4D for secondary array)

Weapons:

3 Triple Mounted Hapan Turbolasers (modified)
Fire Arc: Forward
Crew: 4 Each
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D (modified)
Fire Rate: 1 blast per triple mount per round or 1/3 for a three round burst
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 8D for a single shot or 10D for a three round burst (modified)
Notes: Each triple mount can either sustain a one shot per round rate of fire or link for a three round burst and then recharge for three rounds

8 Double Turbolaser Cannons (Scavenged from Corellian Gunship)
Fire Arc: 4 left, 4 right
Crew: 2 Each
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 4D (modified)
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 6D (modified)

4 Tri-Particle Beamers (Scavenged from Discril Attack Cruiser)
Fire Arc: Back
Crew: 2 Each
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D (modified)
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Damage: 4D (modified)

4 Concussion Missile Tubes
Fire Arc: 2 Forward, 2 Back
Crew: 3 Each
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 9D

10 Ion Cannons
Fire Arc: 3 Fire-Linked Forward, 2 Fire-Linked Left, 2 Fire-Linked Right, 3 Fire-Linked Back
Crew: 2 Each
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 4D (modified)
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Damage: 4D (modified)

10 Laser Cannons
Fire Arc: Forward
Crew: 2 Each
Scale: Starfighter
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery (Yes, CAPITAL Ship Gunnery)
Fire Control: 3D (modified)
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 6D (modified)

6 Quad Laser Cannons (Scavenged from Corellian Gunship)
Fire Arc: 3 Right, 3 Left
Crew: 3 Each
Scale: Starfighter
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 4D (modified)
Space Range: 1-5/10/17
Damage: 6D (modified)

3 Tri-Laser Cannons (Scavenged from Discril Attack Cruiser)
Fire Arc Back
Crew: 6 Each
Scale: Starfighter
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D (modified)
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 5D (modified)

Support Craft:
24 Hapan Miy'til Fighters
4 Skipray Blastboats
2 Katarn Boarding Shuttles

Notes: This ship started life as a normal Hapes Nova Battlecruiser. She's been modified with parts from two Daupherm Discril Attack Cruisers (from Pirates and Privateers) and one Corellian Gunship. The price for both of these vessels and all modifications is figured into the final 50 million credit price tag. She carries the power cores of all three vessels that were used to modify her onboard in secondary and tertiary mountings. The two power cores from the Daupherm Discril Attack Cruisers are linked together to act as the secondary core and the single mounting from the Corellian Gunship acts as the tertiary core. The sensor array has a full backup system to supplement the primary sensors in case of catastrophic failure of the primary array. Obviously weaponry from all of the ships were figured into the final weapon complement of the vessel. Some of the Hapes Nova's original turbolasers were sold off to buy the ion cannons. I haven't bothered putting an Atmosphere Range for any of the weapon systems since the Hapes Nova isn't designed for atmospheric operations. Also, the support craft are also figured into the final price tag.

Suggestion Number Three: Purchase a crap load of droids to cut the crew requirements. Also, I allow reduction of crew requirements through modifications of the ship itself. My rules run like this...

Roll Starfighter, Space Transports, or Capital Ship Repair, depending on what you're modifying.

Crew Reduction#####Difficulty#####Cost
========================================
-5%################Easy###########+5%
-10%###############Moderate#######+10%
-15%###############Difficult######+15%
-20%###############Very Difficult#+20%
-25%###############Heroic#########+25%


[Edited by Kayle Skolaris on 12 November 2000 at 01:55 AM]
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Posted by Lokar on 12 November 2000 01:53 AM

Talking

Once again Kayle to the rescue.
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Posted by Kayle Skolaris on 12 November 2000 01:58 AM

I tell ya, WEG's Star Wars system was a work of pure genius. I have yet to run into a gaming situation that I can't solve in five minutes with some simple extrapolations of the basic rules!
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Posted by Lokar on 12 November 2000 02:02 AM

Yep, I got to go with you on that. I thinking of resurecting my old "Yeah WEG, boo WtoC" thread now that people are actually starting to see the finish product for real. And this will end my grip on this therad and the stats section.
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Posted by BGKnight44 on 12 November 2000 10:20 PM

hehe.
Kayle, that was one of my personal favorites, i was always wondering when i would see it on the board.
lol
and i agree sell the Neb, strip some stuff off it and sell, get a Kaloth Battlecruiser or a Carrack cruiser or something of the like, or even get a bunch of smaller cap ships, save you on crew big time.
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Posted by Kayle Skolaris on 12 November 2000 10:28 PM

As an alternative to the ship above, you could sell that death trap of an escort frigate and buy several of these...

Duapherm Discril Cruiser
Craft: Duapherm Discril-class Attack Cruiser
Type: System attack cruiser
Scale: Capital
Length: 85 meters
Skill: Capital ship piloting: Discril Cruiser
Crew: 150; 51 gunners
Passengers: 60 (troops)
Cargo Capacity: 7,800 metric tons
Consumables: 2 Weeks
Cost: 500,000 (used)
Hyperdrive Multiplier: 3x
Hyperdrive backup: 20x
Nav Computer: yes
Maneuverability: 1D
Space: 5
Hull: 4D
Shields: 1D
Sensors:
Passive: 30/0D
Scan: 60/1D+2
Search: 90/2D
Focus 3/3D
Weapons:
5 Laser cannons
Fire arc: Turret
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire control: 1D+1
Crew: 4
Space range: 3-15/35/75
Atmosphere: 6-30/70/150 km
Damage: 4D
5 Tri-particle Beamers
Fire arc: Front
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire control: 2D
Crew: 2
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Atmosphere: 2-20/50/100 km
Damage: 3D
3 Tri-laser Cannons
Fire arc: Front
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire control: 1D
Crew: 6
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Atmosphere: 100-300/1.2/2.5 km
Damage: 4D

With a Heroic Capital Ship Repair roll you can bring the crew requirements down to 113. You'll still need 51 gunners though unless you go for a Starship Weapons Repair roll on each one to lower their crew requirements. No single emplacement can have its required crew lowered to fewer than one.


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Posted by Lokar on 12 November 2000 10:37 PM

I would rather get myself a Bulk Cruiser with a the most advance starfighters I could lay my hands on. I'd modifed the cuiser up the wazoo as well with heavy ion cannons and a C3 computer for the starfighters. I'd also get a pair of Corellian Guinships for escorts and to take on any combat ships. Oh and a Corellian Corvette modifed for ship-to-ship combat. This should coast no more than 2 months money at 10 million a month. I personal would take a ship that would last longer than 2 weeks in space (I'm usually on the run).
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Posted by Thrawn on 13 November 2000 05:23 AM

Thanks Guys
I think I will go with both Kayles and Chris´s ideas.
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Posted by BGKnight44 on 13 November 2000 10:49 PM

Lokar you never cease to amaze me.
lol
Oh and Kayle, it's not a just a death trap of an escort frigate, it's a floating scrap heap of moronic ship design escort frigate that the Empire foolishly spent a whole crap load of it's money on.
ok there i've vented.

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Posted by Lokar on 13 November 2000 11:09 PM

Hey man I ticked off a lota of groups: the Empire (guess they don't like rebels too much ), the New Republic (they betrayed me first, and guess the Prncess from Aldrean did cear about my opinons on Outer-Rim policy), the pirate Kahn (long time rivalry), the Prixian Union (hey there the bad guys). So I guess that pretty much getting chased around by everybody that you shouldn't mess with except for the Black Sun (even I'm not stupid).
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Posted by Form1 on 14 November 2000 12:02 PM

The Far Orbit SB has some good info on Neb-B's and modifyin em in particular.

Dave
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