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Allst Beamem
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Memphis, TN USA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Also something you might consider is, to us seeing Vader is common place, but to most in "real life" his presence is terrifying and ominous, and it would take a brave (or stupid) individual to appose such a person. |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Especially when they start dropping because they're being strangled in his presence by an invisible source. Should get LOTS of people talking... |
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| "Could this Vader guy... Be one of the Jedi the Emperor warned us about?" "Nah, can't be. He hunts them." "But... He has powers like them." "Blaster Bolts with Blaster Bolts." |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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True... that is oen thing i feel the emperor might have problem with explaining... but then again maybe he could care less.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think the Emperor would bother explaining. He'd either kill them where they stood to quite the babbling or wipe their minds. Either way, problem solved. |
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| "Ummmmmmmmm, Emperor... You warned us about the Jedi, who have mystical powers. What about Lord Vader? Is he a Jedi?" "He is my trusted advisor, and my voice in some matters. That is all you need to know." |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, but he warned the public about the Jedi, who'd supposedly betrayed and turned against the Republic. "As all can see, Lord Vader is an upstanding, loyal citizen who's served the Empire and myself with distinction. You have no need to question his presence or his loyalty; were he a traitorous Jedi I would have him immediately executed to protect all loyal citizens." |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Vader's public title and the fate of Kamino? |
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| Vanion wrote: | A couple questions for all you wise people out there.
If the Emperor ever allowed Vader to be in the public's eye (i.e.: shown on the Holo News Net) after the events in EpIII... how do you suppose he referred to him? Basically, I'm wondering what Vader's official title was when mentioned in public. I'm not talking about explaining Vader's authority or title to members of the Imperial masses... rather, I'm talking about the countless number of galactic inhabitants. (i.e.: Would many "average Joes throught the galaxy know of Darth Vader... and if so... how would they place him within the Imperial Political/Military system?) |
Hmmm, a very interesting question and idea, and one I had always taken the answers at face value for. However, since we are in the realm of conjecture, and speculation, I will answer with my personal thoughts and opinions as to this. Since this is really a 2 part question, I will answer it in 2 parts:
1 - We know that Vader's name is known throughout the Galaxy, to rebels and citizens alike, and he has gotten notorious by the timeline of Episode IV. How he got that way is not described in detail. I am certain that he didn't just start off waving his hand and randomly strangly people from the get-go, as Palpatine was still securing his new power, and hadn't yet obtained his absolute rule (the final steps of that are the stage set at the beginning of Episode IV, some 16 years later). I feel, using Episode III as the guidepoint, that more than likely Vader was first held out as the Emperor's new right hand man, the man who would personally deliver the remaining "Traitorous Jedi" who had tried to "overthrow the republic" to justice. He was probably held out as a hero and savior (much the way Annakin was). The Emperor may not have tried to cover up Annakin's defeat, though he certainly concealed the true identity of lord Vader. I find that properly placed news of the defeat, and death of Annakin Skywalker at the hands of former general Kennobi could only serve the Emperor's cause, as Annakin was heralded as a hero by the senate, and would asist the Emperor in turning the galaxy against the Jedi. Then, of course, as time went on, and the Empire grew, it's authority becoming more cruel and absolute, so too did Vader's actions, and his fame shifted to Noteriety. The average citizen probably saw him as one to not cross, as he was "the man who hunted the last of the Jedi".
2- From a military standpoint, I feel Vader was always held out as special envoy, attache, and advisor to the emperor. His closeness to the Emperor was obviously no secret in Episodes IV-VI. It was probably well known that he was the Emperor's eyes, ears, and voice. The military most likely saw plenty of holo-vids of the two standing side by side, and it was most likely common knowledge that Vader was charged with the final destruction of the Jedi traitors. His temper and lack of tolerance for failure became legendary. It is also obvious that Vader is the Emperor's executioner, i.e., the man the Emperor sends when things absolutely need to be completed or handled in specific fashion, and on time. True, Vader holds no military rank, but given the nature of the military at that point, and the military in any Empire, it would be a safe bet not to question the right hand man of the Emperor. I see no reason Vader's military role would be kept secret. I see his position as one similar in some ways to a Vice President, and in others to a Secretary of Defense.
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Next... Does anyone know the fate of Kamino, it's people, and the cloning facilities after EpIII? Has it ever been talked about in any of the WotC books or novels? Certainly the Empire could not allow them to continue operating, could they? Wouldn't that have posed too much of a threat to the Armies of the Empire? |
Another question i can only answer with speculation and personal conjecture. I feel that the Emperor would have most likely arranged for some events to make the Kaminoans as Enemies of the Empire, so he could quickly sieze the cloning technology, and prevent it from falling into the hands of his enemies. I feel that Kamino was most likely one of the first victims of the new order, it's cities laid ruin, it's surface scared and ravaged by orbital bombardment, and it's citizens led to the slow death of slavery in imperial prison camps and factories, all building the might of the new order. Much of the technology I feel was siezed, and placed in secret facilities and store houses for the sole and secretive use of the Emperor in building his armies. A likely bet would have been a "staged" clone riot or assault on Kamino, to asist the Emperor in passing his ban on cloning (after all, it would be hard to swallow given the Republic's use of clones during the war). Some of the Kaminoans were probably offered the oportunity to co-operate in the operation of the secret facilities, in return for being spared the slow death of slave labor. Kamino was more than likely the first target of Palpatine's Anti-alien agenda.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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Vanion
Lieutenant
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Well said on both questions, KageRyu.
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"Life is not measured in years, but by deeds" |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Vader's public title and the fate of Kamino? |
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[quote="KageRyu"] | Vanion wrote: | | Another question i can only answer with speculation and personal conjecture. I feel that the Emperor would have most likely arranged for some events to make the Kaminoans as Enemies of the Empire, so he could quickly sieze the cloning technology, and prevent it from falling into the hands of his enemies. I feel that Kamino was most likely one of the first victims of the new order, it's cities laid ruin, it's surface scared and ravaged by orbital bombardment, and it's citizens led to the slow death of slavery in imperial prison camps and factories, all building the might of the new order. Much of the technology I feel was siezed, and placed in secret facilities and store houses for the sole and secretive use of the Emperor in building his armies. A likely bet would have been a "staged" clone riot or assault on Kamino, to asist the Emperor in passing his ban on cloning (after all, it would be hard to swallow given the Republic's use of clones during the war). Some of the Kaminoans were probably offered the oportunity to co-operate in the operation of the secret facilities, in return for being spared the slow death of slave labor. Kamino was more than likely the first target of Palpatine's Anti-alien agenda. |
At this point it's just about ALL conjecture, but you're definitely following some sound logic. I liked the idea of the 'staged' clone revolt too... that would make for a VERY handy reason to 'dispose' of the cloning facility and, incidentally, to outlaw cloning itself. That would pave the way for Palpatine to have the monopoly on cloning technology, owning any and all advances made since they'd be working directly for him. It'd also take any suspicion away from him as far as his use of clones went. Not many people would suspect it, since A) Most don't understand the nature of the Force, and so wouldn't know how it can corrupt the Sith who wields it, and B)While the Empire might be hated, it's still portrayed as the New Order, emphasis on the word ORDER. Being outlawed technology, John Q. Public wouldn't suspect the Emperor of owning and operating a secret cloning facility since it goes against all the propaganda he spits out showing the 'benevolent' nature of the Empire. The Alliance knows better, but that's another story. The public at large would figure cloning was done with the Clone Wars, and that would be that. |
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Robert
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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About the Kaminoans:
Whenever i read about stormtroopers, it says nobody knows whrer they come from and where they are trained, but they fight loyal to the death for the empire. Imho they are clonetroopers - maybe covered up with some normal human stormtroopers which where trained normaly. This would explain what the kaminoans work for after their homeplanet was seized by the emperor.
About Vader.
Why should the Emperor lie about anakin = Vader? He was humiliated by Obi-Wan but he stands again as a war hero against the jedi and any rebels. Although he probably has no military rank it fits with the style of the emperor to destroy dependable hierarchies in favor of better influence for him. Why should he let develop certainty about superiors?
Dont forget:
"The Select Committee is the ruling body for COMPNOR. The shadow of the Emperor then fell across the Committee, and membership declined recipitously. No one knows exactly how many members there are now. Those in the lower echelons of COMPNOR believe there are still 15,000 or more members. Those who are higher up quietly guess that there are perhaps one hundredth that number. The Select Committee declines to dispel the confusion."
Vader is just the same - a cause of fear and uncertainty to subordinates. Only the emperor is a shining beacon in this dark and unstable world.
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old...we grow old because we stop playing." G.B. Shaw |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Robert wrote: | About the Kaminoans:
Whenever i read about stormtroopers, it says nobody knows whrer they come from and where they are trained, but they fight loyal to the death for the empire. Imho they are clonetroopers - maybe covered up with some normal human stormtroopers which where trained normaly. This would explain what the kaminoans work for after their homeplanet was seized by the emperor.
About Vader.
Why should the Emperor lie about anakin = Vader? He was humiliated by Obi-Wan but he stands again as a war hero against the jedi and any rebels. Although he probably has no military rank it fits with the style of the emperor to destroy dependable hierarchies in favor of better influence for him. Why should he let develop certainty about superiors?
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I think a lot of that has to do with not many people know that vader is any relation to luke until after he has found out himself. If vader was known as Anikin skywalker, there would be many who would wonder...
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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At the very least, Palpatine's highest advisors knew. They were around him almost constantly, and he wasn't shy about calling Anakin Lord Vader in front of them BEFORE he got encased in the armor. And once the armor was on, there was never any real reason to call him Anakin. "Anakin Skywalker" just doesn't inspire the dread and fear that "Lord Vader" does. As was pointed out in another thread, a lot of the names given to Sith were either derivatives of negative-sounding words, or the words themselves.
Darth Maul
Darth Tyrannus
Darth Sidious
Darth Vader
Each is either a word that has negative connotations (or is PART of a word that does.)
So especially after Anakin's outward appearance was so radically altered, there was no reason Palpatine would want to refer to him by anything that resembled a normal human being (or a former Jedi, for that matter.) Out with the old, in with the new, and all that... |
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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And, as far as we know, "Skywalker" could be as common as "Smith" in the Star Wars Universe. 
Antillies appears to be.  |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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"...And here, I'd like to introduce you to my daughter, Cloudy Skywalker. This is her twin brother, Stormy.
"Oh, and there's her uncle, Grey."  |
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