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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Soniv wrote: | Well, the way I play it, yes, DSPs are indeed a tally of evilness. However, where other people might be coming from is the phenomenon of "Calling on the Dark Side."
This, basically, gives you a DSP and a FP. The FP given must be spent in that round, and can be spent in conjuntion with a normal FP. Depending on how some people word it, that might sound as if a DSP was spent like a FP.
I hope this helps. |
This is not how it works. You do not get double effects, as Force points gained through trusting to the dark side are still force points, and you can only spend one in a round. The book does state this clearly in a number of places. It further states that if the Force Point granted can NOT be spent, it is lost. You do not get to quadruple everything. The only way to spend multiple force point in a round is via using a force power that itself requires the loss of a force point, which is where a FP from trusting to the dark side could be used in conjunction with a normal FP.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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Krapou
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Bordeaux, France
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: |
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SW R&E Rulebook p86:
| Quote: | | A character who successfully calls upon the dark side receives a Force point which must be spent immediately — this is in addition to any other Force Points which have been spent that round. |
Well the book says we can have another FP spent in the round but it is also true that we don't know the effects of that second FP...
- Maybe it has no effects (but this seems stupid)
- Maybe the effects are doubled (but this is so powerfull that it shouldn't be allowed)
- Maybe this FP could be use for Force powers like 'reduce injury'... |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:24 am Post subject: |
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The rules also say that you can only spend 1 force point in a round. Also, there are Force powers that require spending 1 or more force points themselves (technically in a round) which supercedes all of this. It all must be looked at in context. Most importantly, I would point out that this "quadruple DSFP effect" is against everything in the rules, and open to serious abuse. Here's why:
• Begining of Round, Dark Jedi anounces he is Burning a FP.
• DJ then announces he is Trusting to the Dark side for another FP, rolls his easy target number, gets second FP and immediately burns it
• DJ the announces he is trusting to the dark side AGAIN... makes his easy +3 (now that everything is quadrupled already) gets a third FP and burns it.
• DJ then announces...well...need I go on we're already at everything being Octupled, and, well, DJ can keep this up all day...
There is now way that is or was in the spirit of the written rules. But, as this interpretation is being made, that has now become possible. This just is not how it works.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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Krapou
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Bordeaux, France
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| I totally agree ! |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: |
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And just imagine that lighsaber hit with his control dice being nigh-on incalculable...
GM: Ok, the DJ finally missed a trust to the dark side roll, he has spent 36 Force Points, everyone roll initiative!
Player-1: Why Bother?
Player-2: Mommy?!
GM: The DJ swings his lightsaber at You player-1, he hits for 5D^36, carry the one...hand in your character damage.
Player-1:...
Player-2: Is that some new damage class?
Player-1: Yeah, and with this new DSP method I think we'll be seeing it a lot.
Player-2: I think I'm going to go play some good old reliable D&D!
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Pity we have no WEG writers of the rules around to ask that... As mentioned elsewhere that is one of the few (iirc) inconsistencies...
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Darius
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Aucks, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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What about for non force sensitive characters ? Should the rules for acquiring DSP be the same for both force sensitive and non force sensitive characters ? And for turning to the Dark Side ? There must be some advantage to being non force sensitive - although hopefully not a big one. Dont want those non force sensitive characters thinking they can get away with anything.
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oops - i didnt mean to make it go off |
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KageRyu
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Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| darius wrote: | | What about for non force sensitive characters ? Should the rules for acquiring DSP be the same for both force sensitive and non force sensitive characters ? And for turning to the Dark Side ? There must be some advantage to being non force sensitive - although hopefully not a big one. Dont want those non force sensitive characters thinking they can get away with anything. |
Non-force sensitive characters do aquire DSPs, but not quite in the same way, or for the same things as a force sensitive or Jedi character would. Basically, a non-force sensitive has a little more leeway, but if the GM feels they are being really evil, or stepping over the line, then they can get a DSP. Torturing a prisoner for imformation, while semi-taboo to a force sensitive, is permissable to a non-force sensitive unless the torture becomes particularly gruesome. Killing a prisoner should be off limits IMHO, but some GMs might allow it. Arbitrarily killing random people should be a DSP for even a non-force sensitive.
There is a thread in the Gamemaster forum that addresses this I believe. If I knew which one offhand I'd link to it.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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hitmark
Cadet
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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this may be a old topic but find it relevant as i have run into some texts that talk about sith weapons and armors. there they state that the weapon or armor will drain you a force point and give you a dark side point. problem is that the text states that unless the point is used its lost.
only way i can see that you use dark side points is by it granting you extra force skill points as long as you have not fallen to the dark side... |
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Revan
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Unknown Regions beyond the Outer Rim
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, but I would not say that he is really used. He stays there until you atone for your evil actions or fall to the darkside.
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There's no such a thing as the Force's own will. You are it's will. Use it, to impose your will upon reality. Master it, and you shall master the universe. May the Force serve you well. |
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TheFamousTommyZ
Ensign
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| One way to do the double Force point Dark Side reward is to only allow it UNTIL they finally fall..after all, atthat point, the Dark Side has them...why give them all that extra? |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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I stick with the first edition rules for DSPs.
A DSP adds +1D/DSP to Control/Sense/Alter, but that is all. There is no "calling upon the dark side" by spending a DSP. When enough DSPs are aquired (2-7), the character will be consumed by the dark side and become an NPC. At this point their DSP bonus' no longer acrue. However many DSPs it took to turn them is all the bonus they receive. After that, further DSPs is just a measure of the depravity into which they sink. I, as Director, then use that NPC to work against the group, always targeting the player who lost this character first, until the group deals with it.
If your rules allow a character to aquire DSPs by using dark side skills or just acting on evil emotions, and then spend those DSPs like force points - then the darkside is stronger. Yoda was wrong.
Dark side characters aquire force points the same way light side characters do: by performing heroic deeds for good. And can spend them the same way, but PC Jedi would feel a swell from the dark side as this force point is used to do evil.
These rules create villians which are quickly more powerful than the players, but can be defeated by a moment of heroism - thus following the pattern of heroic fantasy.
In my game, the Sith and dark Jedi aquire DSPs (and DSP bonus') quickly, but only rarely aquire force points. Players aquire force points, but tend to shed DSPs when aquired for fear of losing their characters to the dark side. So this simple game mechanic replicates the situation Yoda said exists in the movies. This is why I don't use the "calling upon the dark side" rule from the revised edition.
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No Jesus, No Peace |
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hitmark
Cadet
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| hitmark wrote: | | only way i can see that you use dark side points is by it granting you extra force skill points as long as you have not fallen to the dark side... |
err, i should have said "used".
as in, your not so much using the dark side points as getting a bonus from them.
my problem is, whats up with those "use em or loose em" dark side points that one gets from sith weapons and armor?
and i must say i dont realy have a problem with the "call on the dark side" rule. sure you get a temporary force point. but you have to use it NOW or loose it again. at the same time you get a dark side point, and it will not go away unless you do the usual attonement.
ie, your gambling with your characters playability...
and i dont think a character that have fallen to the dark side can get force points from doing good. that would be like darth vader going around handing out flowers to recharge after a fight 
doing unspeakable evil on the other hand  |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| hitmark wrote: | ...and i dont think a character that have fallen to the dark side can get force points from doing good. That would be like darth vader going around handing out flowers to recharge after a fight.
Doing unspeakable evil on the other hand... |
Which is why he eventually runs out of force points and is defeated by an untrained dweeb with half his skill. Otherwise, Darth Vader would simply "call upon the dark side" whenever he needed another force point and cannot be defeated...ever.
I'm not willing to give dark siders the ability to call for unlimited force points on demand.
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Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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hitmark
Cadet
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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the force dont have to reply...
still, didnt the person he lost against allso call on the dark side for that battle?
or are we refering to the new movies now?
calling upon the dark side isnt automaticly successfull. each time its done, the difficulty goes up. how knows how many times he had done so? could the 3 old movies be seen as a single adventure? |
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