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KageRyu
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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tahlorn wrote: | And from the book:
Dodge can only be used against range attacks.
So, do you just stand there and take the lightsabre, or try to delay it by losing all your weapons? I say you dodge. I know that dodge is meant for ranged attacks, but hey, you have to have SOME way of keeping alive against a lightsabre.
Also, if you have to throw up a waepon as defense against a lightsabre, and miss by just a bit (say by 5 or so) then the weapon is dead, but it's body stength is treated as armour.
My two cents.
~T |
Several good points, I have always played where dodge is usable against melee and brawl, but at less effect as there is less room to manuever. As for all of the points mentioned here:
| garhkal wrote: |
While i do see your point, kage, i do agree, parries are IMO not just blocking the weapon. They also include other things like ducking under (or away) from the blow, slapping the hand/arm with the weapon to the side, etc. That, and if you make it to only someone with a LS can parry a LS, then imo you unbalance combat, majorly towards those jedi (or dark jedi).. This is why, i do agree, brawl and melee parry should still be allowed against lightsaber attacks, though i could see allowing the +10 penalty they assign to a brawler parrying melee attacks to apply to a brawler or meleer parrying a lightsaber... |
Even trying to "slap a weapon/hand to the side" you need to first get past the weapons blade, and risk serious injury. I say if using Melee or Brawling parries in this fashion and allowing them to parry a lightsaber, it is only common sense to say that if the Parry is more than 10 below the roll, then either the weapon, or the character parrying is hit by the lightsaber and damaged. If you allow lightsabers to be unable to harm or cut weapons that are used to parry them, or weapons they successfully parry, then, IMHO, you seriously unbalance the effect of a lightsaber and disregard everything the game and common sense tells us about them. Everything in the Star Wars universe, including EU, says Lightsabers are a dangerous thing, and that they will cut through weapons and attackers alike, they should not be dismissed or played down. That is why they are rare, expensive to construct, specialized in skill, and dificult to manufacture; all of these elements are tools for the GM to help keep a lightsaber in balance.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Even trying to "slap a weapon/hand to the side" you need to first get past the weapons blade, and risk serious injury. I say if using Melee or Brawling parries in this fashion and allowing them to parry a lightsaber, it is only common sense to say that if the Parry is more than 10 below the roll, then either the weapon, or the character parrying is hit by the lightsaber and damaged. If you allow lightsabers to be unable to harm or cut weapons that are used to parry them, or weapons they successfully parry, then, IMHO, you seriously unbalance the effect of a lightsaber and disregard everything the game and common sense tells us about them. Everything in the Star Wars universe, including EU, says Lightsabers are a dangerous thing, and that they will cut through weapons and attackers alike, they should not be dismissed or played down. That is why they are rare, expensive to construct, specialized in skill, and dificult to manufacture; all of these elements are tools for the GM to help keep a lightsaber in balance. |
Which is how i have ruled in the past... Miss the block yb 1-10, then start rolling body or strength!!
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Which is how i have ruled in the past... Miss the block yb 1-10, then start rolling body or strength!! |
Heck, man! Start rolling coffin size! |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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But the question is really double edged. Theres the issue of someone brawling, or using a melee weapon attacking a person with a lightsaber who declared the parry. I think this is pretty self explanatory, if the parry succeeds the attacker or his weapon is then hit.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Valid point Kage... In that situation, i would actually state for the jedi to 'damage' the attacker, he would actually have to call his 'parry' for that purpose, incuring a +5 penalty for it... BUT if he pulls it off, he does damage to the weapon (or arm)..
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree about having to call it at all in such a case. When you have a beam of pure energy between you and the attacker that you are using to disuade an attack, or actually block, it is more than likely the attacker will either conect with it, or there weapon will. This is represented by a successful parry. This is really a straight forward issue. 'calling' a parry to harm is really inapproopriate, because then why can't a Vibro-blade user do the same thing? Lightsabers are dangerous, lightsabers are powerful, but we shouldn't disregard the common sense concepts of using them as weapons to make them 'fair'. Lightsabers aren't fair, that is why they are the selected weapon of the Jedi (and Dark Jedi).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:48 am Post subject: |
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But when anyone else parries with a weapon, they don't get to cause damage to the attacker (or their weapon), so why should it be allowed for lightsabers?
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Because a lightsaber can possibly damage the wielder simply by them twirling the thing around. A blaster can't do that unless they pull the trigger. In fact, characters with higher stamina will be able to shrug off the effects of a gaderffi hitting them in the arm, or even upside the head (as with my steel cranium...) You can't shrug off a lightsaber blade, period. |
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But when anyone else parries with a weapon, they don't get to cause damage to the attacker (or their weapon), so why should it be allowed for lightsabers? |
A few reasons:
1) Other weapons don't have a chance to injure the wielder if the miss the roll by more than 10 poijnts because they don't have a blade of pure energy that cuts through almost everything.
2) It is the nature of a lightsaber blade, being pure energy and cutting through almost anything. When someone parries the intent is to interpose the blade between yourself and the attacker, either forcing them to back off, or to deflect the weapon of the attacker with the weapon you parry with. Almost any role player in almost any game considers this the definition of a parry, and so forcing them to call the intent to do damge as, "you were blocking with your arms" when they are rolling their lightsaber skill is really a kludge. For this reason, someone attacking against an oponent parrying with a lightsaber runs the very significant risk of injurring himself or his weapon on the lightsaber blade (say if they roll above the difficulty to hit, but below the lightsabers parry).
3) It is an official rule.
Personally, I have always used a similar rule for unarmed people attacking someone with an edged weapon that parries, as most game systems have such provisions for armed vs. unarmed.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Personally, I have always used a similar rule for unarmed people attacking someone with an edged weapon that parries, as most game systems have such provisions for armed vs. unarmed. |
That's another good point. About the only way to POSSIBLY negate this would be if the person had Martial Arts, where they were specifically trained how to parry a weapon while they themselves were empty-handed... but even then there's still the chance that things could go awry; perhaps this shouldn't negate the difficulty altogether, but it might be acceptable to reduce the risk to show proficiency in this area. |
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Argamoth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'd run it so when an attack is made, if the parry beats the attack by a good number, the defender gets to make a counter attack. The 'good number' depends on the weapons involved, it's easier when using a light weapon, like a lightsaber or knife.
Brawling can also do this, because I treat any chatacter with Brawling at about 10D or better at knowing martial arts. Now, that character might not know special moves, he'd need other training for that... |
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd have to agree with that, and perhaps take it a step further. Brawling at that skill level means the person has definitely learned to fight dirty. It would almost go without saying that he'd learned to defend himself against a number of weapons, whether or not he himself had one at the time. He might not know "special moves" as such, but he'd darn well know how to step in, block the ARM moving the knife, and grapple in such a way so as to get his opponent to drop the knife- either because of the intense pressure on the arm or because the arm just got BROKEN. Anyone with 10D Brawling can handle themselves in just about any melee they find themselves in, and do it unarmed... |
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Argamoth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Even in the movies, Jedi were kicking and puching eachother all over the place.
With a fight between a gangsta-knife/club weilder and a martial artist, I'd expect the martial artist to win. With a fight between a boxer and a Spaniard, I'd expect the swordsman to win. It's whoever has the most skill. Now, weapons do give you an advantage. But skill can still overcome it. |
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, and with both your examples. A boxer couldn't defeat a swordsman, unless it was Muhammed Ali versus a four year old. The swordsman simply has much more he can do, and a boxer is only taught so much.
And yes, the martial artist would win, hands-down. Now, a knife-wielding martial artist vs. an unarmed martial artist would be an interesting fight to watch. I'd sell tickets and popcorn... |
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