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Speeder onboard a light freighter?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Speeder onboard a light freighter? Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
While an external box would work, it would also drag the ship's speed and maneuverability down, and cause it's external, it also makes it easier to Lose the speeder (the box gets hit and jettisoned).

Why would it drag the speed / maneuverability down? So long as it weighs less than the ship's maximum cargo capacity, and the box is properly secured.

The bigger issue, IMO (depending on what sort of campaign you are running) is how much the weight of the speeder would cut into the ship's usable cargo capacity.


Cause its making more 'drag' on the ship..
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Space is nearly a perfect vacuum. There's particles in space, but that number is so ridiculously small it won't change anything.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
Space is nearly a perfect vacuum. There's particles in space, but that number is so ridiculously small it won't change anything.


True. But, the mass of the object, if heavy enough, could impact the ship's thrust rating.

But, this is Star Wars. Space Opera. I wouldn't think twice about putting it in the ship without changing a thing.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. Or else why would a PC even buy a speeder if you cant take it with you off planet?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most buy them for their 'home base planet'. Or rent when off world.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Speeder onboard a light freighter? Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Cause its making more 'drag' on the ship..

And what exactly in space is causing "drag"?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Most buy them for their 'home base planet'. Or rent when off world.


Nah, not in our games. We've always just had a "speeder bay" in every transport... never even really thought about it, till now, actually.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
ForbinProject wrote:
Space is nearly a perfect vacuum. There's particles in space, but that number is so ridiculously small it won't change anything.


True. But, the mass of the object, if heavy enough, could impact the ship's thrust rating.

But, this is Star Wars. Space Opera. I wouldn't think twice about putting it in the ship without changing a thing.

But in a vacuum, if a ship has a 100 metric ton cargo capacity, and a speeder has a mass of 5 tons, it shouldn't appreciably affect the thrust.

The only way I could see it being a factor is if the ship has to extend its inertial compensators and navigation shields to cover the external housing.

Drag might be a factor in atmospheric flight, but the SWU features some exceptionally non-aerodynamic ships operating just fine in atmosphere. The Millennium Falcon, for one, would be about as aerodynamic as a thrown brick without repulsorlifts.

Personally, I think navigation shields play a factor, as well, with the shields configuring into a low- or zero-drag pattern that redirects air around the ship and absorbing and dissipating any heat build-up.

Of course, the other problem with external storage is increased vulnerability to damage...
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
But in a vacuum, if a ship has a 100 metric ton cargo capacity, and a speeder has a mass of 5 tons, it shouldn't appreciably affect the thrust.


Well, as I said, this isn't hard science fiction. In reality, the mass of the vessel has increased by half a percent, thus the response from the same thrust will be reduced accordingly. Over the long distances covered in space, this can add up to be a material change in velocity.

But, again, this is Star Wars, not Traveller. I wouldn't worry about it at all.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
But in a vacuum, if a ship has a 100 metric ton cargo capacity, and a speeder has a mass of 5 tons, it shouldn't appreciably affect the thrust.


Well, as I said, this isn't hard science fiction. In reality, the mass of the vessel has increased by half a percent, thus the response from the same thrust will be reduced accordingly. Over the long distances covered in space, this can add up to be a material change in velocity.

But, again, this is Star Wars, not Traveller. I wouldn't worry about it at all.


In reality the ship isn't going to carrying 100 metric tons of cargo/mass constantly. Also cargo doesn't conveniently come in packages that fill a cargo bay while equaling the exact tonnage a ship can carry.

More often than not cargo takes up more space than it masses.

Heck, depending on how the ship has been customized it may never carry more mass than it's designed to carry.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is somewhat futile to discuss the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation in a space opera game where TIE fighters howl across the screen, and exogorths hide in asteroid belts. Extremely dense asteroid belts, even.

Personally, I'm of the Cat school. If it fits, it sits. And there's no reason to start discussing performance degradation because of a fully loaded ship - it isn't that way in the RAW, and I see no advantage to introduce that unless it is for trying to make a chase or other vehicle-related scene more exciting.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point we are diverging from is that a mass amounting to ~1-5% of a ship's listed cargo capacity is not going to appreciably affect that ship's performance.

I speak from personal experience; a semi-truck with a maximum (legal) cargo capacity of 22-23 tons (the physical maximum is easily twice that) will not handle noticeably different if it is hauling 1-2 tons or is completely empty.
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Straxus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
I'm reminded of the Mule from Firefly.

A speeder version of that for pulling repulsorlift trailers wouldn't be out of the ordinary at all. A wheeled version with a multi-option trailer hitch would be useful for Tramp Freighters, as it would likely be able to operate on planets where repulsorlifts aren't able to operate, and would be easier to maintain and cheaper to operate.


The Mule is what I had in mind when I imagined it. I see what you're saying about a wheeled version, but repulsorlifts are just so much more Star Wars-y Wink I also like the multitool-forklift-idea, CRMcNeill.
Thanks for everyone's input, it's helped a lot. I think I'm going to make up some sort of small multipurpose repulsorlift with a sled, with just about room for the three of them. After all, speeder chases are a big part of Star Wars, IMO. Also, I guess you could argue there's room for a speeder underneath what you can see on the interior plans on the xs-800.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straxus wrote:
Ray wrote:
I'm reminded of the Mule from Firefly.

A speeder version of that for pulling repulsorlift trailers wouldn't be out of the ordinary at all. A wheeled version with a multi-option trailer hitch would be useful for Tramp Freighters, as it would likely be able to operate on planets where repulsorlifts aren't able to operate, and would be easier to maintain and cheaper to operate.


The Mule is what I had in mind when I imagined it. I see what you're saying about a wheeled version, but repulsorlifts are just so much more Star Wars-y Wink I also like the multitool-forklift-idea, CRMcNeill.
Thanks for everyone's input, it's helped a lot. I think I'm going to make up some sort of small multipurpose repulsorlift with a sled, with just about room for the three of them. After all, speeder chases are a big part of Star Wars, IMO. Also, I guess you could argue there's room for a speeder underneath what you can see on the interior plans on the xs-800.


You can get droids that do the forklift thing like the B-1 Worker Droid. And for the Mule the V5-T Transport Droid can be purchased with repulsorlift, carries 2 tons of cargo, and it's only 2.2 meters in size.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:

Personally, I'm of the Cat school. If it fits, it sits.


And that's the issue.. CAN they fit?

Looking in the PDF for vehicles, MANY of those multi-passenger land speeders (and air speeders) are too large to fit into most ship's DRAWN cargo holds based on the schematics various sites have developed for them (as per what is IN those pdfs), cause they just won't fit in the cargo hatches..
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