The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Bwing strangeness
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech -> Bwing strangeness Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My version of the B-Wing

It's a little outdated, but I haven't gotten around to fixing it yet.

The biggest thing I changed was an idea I came up with while trying to discern a practical use for the spinning fuselage feature which, while it looked cool, ultimately serves no real purpose.

What I did was chop the swiveling laser cannon from the A-Wing (some of which had been modified to spin 360 degrees) and give them the B-Wing's Auto-Blasters in exchange, giving the A-Wing an awesome energy weapon for anti-starfighter work.

I then took the swiveling lasers from the A-Wing and grafted them onto the ends of the cross-wings on the B-Wing. With the entire ship able to spin 360 degrees in one axis while the cannon can spin 360 degrees in a second, the lasers can be angled to fire in any direction, regardless of the B-Wing's flight path. This allows the B-Wing to stay on an attack run against a larger ship while simultaneously using its laser cannon to fend off attacking fighters.

A more conventional craft would use a turret weapon for self defense, but it was the only explanation I could find that worked for the spinning fuselage.

And since the B-Wing is a Verpine design, and Verpine are known for their occasionally off-the-wall designs, it seemed a good fit.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty cool. I'd use it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Another simpler explanation may be that the B-wing has 2D in shields when the X-wing only has 1D. But that evens the it out with the X-wing so the B-wing's hull still seems a bit low to me.
This.

And I figured the mechanically complex rotating cockpit and wing of the B-wing are prone to more failure modes than the less complicated X-wing (S-foils in or out of attack position) and the solo configuration Y-wing.

And I figured X-wing and TIE combat were somewhat inspired by Corsair F4U vs Zeros in WWII in the pacific. So the X-wing is more durable even without its shields.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see the B-Wing as being a sort of glass cannon. A low hull rating would make more sense if it was compensated for by a faster speed and more maneuverability (or at least one of the two).

Other than that, the B-wing would need a squadron of X-wing of A-wings to support its mission.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
...trying to discern a practical use for the spinning fuselage feature which, while it looked cool, ultimately serves no real purpose.


Gawds, yeah, I never understood why this was inserted into the description of the B-wing. We never saw such spinning of the B-wing's...wing in its first appearance in RotJ. The only time I can even recall such a thing is in the Rebels episode "Flight of the Master" where we see only the second canon appearance of the B-wing. Yeah, seeing Hera fly the Blade Wing with its spinning around the cockpit is nice and serves the Rule of Cool, but like CRM, I don't see any practical application for it either. In fact, it's a net detriment because it serves no useful purpose and prone to breaking down. So that means that the B-wing, a fighter meant to replace to "obsolete" Y-wing, is actually worse off because it needs more repair than the Y-wing for doing the same job.

So yeah, in my SWU, I just forget about this B-wing spinning crap.

Naaman wrote:
I could see the B-Wing as being a sort of glass cannon. A low hull rating would make more sense if it was compensated for by a faster speed and more maneuverability (or at least one of the two).

Other than that, the B-wing would need a squadron of X-wing or A-wings to support its mission.


A sensible commander would send escorts to accompany bombers anyway, but yeah, a dedicated fighter-bomber like the B-wing should be able to hold its own in the rare case where its escorts are unavailable for whatever reason. Anything enabling the B-wing to stand on its own in a pinch is definitely desirable.

(We just have to remember what happened at Fara's Belt all the same....)
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Giant Tourtiere
Ensign
Ensign


Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 38
Location: Ottawa, ON

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my SWU the B-Wing quickly proved a) impractical and b) a nightmare to maintain in service and so was replaced by a (homebrew) strike fighter called the V-Wing.

The concept behind the B-Wing's spinny geometry reminds me of some of the crazier ideas that got tested in WWII before being determined to be neat in theory but not do-able in practice.
_________________
----
Clever stratagems are quite beyond my powers, but if it is rank foolishness you require, I have no end of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RedKnight
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if i remember right wasnt the B-Wing's spining for storage ? so that it could take up less horizontal space in the SUPER TALL rebel hangers or was that just an idea i came up with to rationalize it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
if i remember right wasn't the B-Wing's spinning for storage ? so that it could take up less horizontal space in the SUPER TALL rebel hangers or was that just an idea i came up with to rationalize it.

IIRC, the Home One landing bay scene in ROTJ shows a B-Wing landed on its side. The only instance where a B-Wing was stored vertically was in the artwork for the Quasar Fire-Class Bulk Carrier, where a B-Wing is shown hanging from an overhead rack.

It's worth noting the B-Wing's similarity to the WWII-era Heavy Fighter and Bomber Destroyer concepts, specifically, of a craft that sacrificed performance to carry heavier weaponry. Pretty much every major power in WWII fielded some variant of this, most of which failed to live up to expectations (the exception being the USA's highly capable P-38 Lightning).

Most heavy fighters were equipped with heavy cannon (up to the 37mm cannon mounted on some tanks of that time), as well as the ability to carry ordnance. They were used for ground attack and anti-ship torpedo missions, and many were later converted into night fighters (it's unfortunate there isn't a night fighter analogue in the SWU; a cloaked ship with heavy weapons using, say, a CGT array to detect targets without dropping the cloak would be an interesting approach).

Ultimately, though, the B-Wing does alright for what it is: a heavy weapons platform. Put a flight or a squadron up against a few corvettes or a frigate and it's a pretty even match. What it is NOT is a superiority fighter, and it will get chewed up badly by TIEs without some A's or X's around to cover it.

Also, looking into the heavy fighter brought up an interesting unfilled niche in the SWU; a long-range fighter, capable of space transport ranges, but with the ability to engage TIE fighters and win, maybe something like the Arakyd Stalker ZzaphodD posted about a few weeks ago...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RedKnight
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or the Arakyd Helix ? a 'Patrol Fighter' to provide pickets for fleets that cant tear off or dont have corvettes for it, something that a system, mercenary group or.....say....a rebellion could use for long range hit and fade strikes in a greater government.....some of....galactic empire perhaps. Something that could jump from a rim planet to the expansion region or the fringe of the core to blow up a research base and then disappear into space.


actually now i wish i had stats because i have an itch to try and figure out what it'd look like.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, since I mentioned my B-Wing stat needed updating, here it is:
    Craft: Slayn & Korpil B-Wing Assault Fighter
    Type: Heavy Assault Starfighter
    Scale: Starship (+6D)
    Length: 16.9 meters
    Skill: Starfighter Piloting: B-Wing
    Crew: 1
    Crew Skill:
    Astrogation 4D
    Gunnery 4D+2
    Piloting 4D+1
    Shields 4D
    Sensors 4D
    Passengers: None
    Cargo Capacity: 50 kilograms
    Consumables: 1 week
    Hyperdrive Multiplier: x2
    Hyperdrive Backup: None
    Nav Computer: Limited (2 jumps)
    Maneuverability: 1D
    Space: 6
    Atmosphere: 330; 950 kph
    Hull: 3D
    Shields: 2D
    Sensors:
    Passive 30/0D
    Scan 50/1D
    Search 75/2D
    Focus 4/4D+1
    Weapons:
    1 Heavy Laser Cannon
    Fire Arc: Front
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 2D
    Space Range: 1-3/12/25
    Atmosphere Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
    Damage: 7D
    1 Heavy Ion Blaster
    Fire Arc: Front
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 2D
    Space Range: 1-2/8/16
    Atmosphere Range: 100m-200m/800m/1.6km
    Damage: 5D
    2 Laser Cannon (Fire-Linked)
    Fire Arc: Any (limited to one fire arc per round)
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 4D
    Space Range: 1-3/12/25
    Atmosphere Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
    Damage: 5D
    Note: The high Fire Control rating is dependent on the B-Wing's innovative gyro-turret design, which is only operational when the S-Foils are in Attack Position. The lasers can still be fired while the S-Foils are in Cruise Position, but are fixed forward (Fire Arc: Front, Fire Control: 2D).
    1 Dual Blaster Cannon
    Fire Arc: Front
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 2D
    Space Range: 1-5/10/17
    Atmosphere Range: 100m-500m/1km/1.7km
    Rate of Fire: 2D Auto-Fire
    Damage: 3D
    2 Proton Torpedo Launchers (Fire-Linked)
    Fire Arc: Front
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 3D
    Note: All other stats vary by ordnance type used. May select any ordnance (except Concussion Missiles) from this list.
    Ammo: 16
    Note: If the B-Wing is Heavily Damaged, the gyro-turret system fails on a roll of 1-2 (in addition to the normal damage table results). If this occurs, apply the following penalties:
      -1D to Fire Control & Maneuverability.
      Dual Laser Cannon is inoperable.
      Reduce Speed to Space 6 / Atmosphere 225; 650 kph.
So it's still a glass cannon, but the weapon stats have been updated to reflect various rule changes I've come up with since then.

The B's main advantage under my Scale system is that, by moving the smaller capital ships down 2D to +10D puts them further within the threat range of something like the B-Wing, which has the potential to take on small, lightly armored capital ships all by itself or to take on larger ones in small groups.

Its main disadvantage, however, is that a single pilot can quickly get overwhelmed by MAPs when trying to use multiple weapons at once. The B-Wing/E, with its two-man crew, as well as upgrades to Hull and other systems, would be an attempt to rectify various failings of the original B-Wing that would only become apparent in operation.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I feel it is possible that whoever first stated the Rebel starfighters had the astromechs in mind when coding the Hull stats, but since it was never stated as a rule that fighters with astromech sockets that do not have the astromech lose 1D (or whatever) off the Hull, the rationale may have been lost when the game system got more crunchy with 2e.

So how about a simple house rule that a ship normally equipped with an Astromech is at -1D Hull if the Astromech is absent or disabled? That drops the Hull on X- and Y-Wings to 3D, equal to the B-Wing and just barely tougher than the A.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
I feel it is possible that whoever first stated the Rebel starfighters had the astromechs in mind when coding the Hull stats, but since it was never stated as a rule that fighters with astromech sockets that do not have the astromech lose 1D (or whatever) off the Hull, the rationale may have been lost when the game system got more crunchy with 2e.

So how about a simple house rule that a ship normally equipped with an Astromech is at -1D Hull if the Astromech is absent or disabled? That drops the Hull on X- and Y-Wings to 3D, equal to the B-Wing and just barely tougher than the A.

That's what I was thinking for a simple rule. For a more crunchy rule, you could make these ships have a base Hull 3D and then give a bonus to Hull based on the droid's starfighter repair skill value (or applicable specialization):

1D-2D = +1
3D-4D = +2
5D-6D = +1D
7D-8D = +1D+1
etc.

Using this, RAW R2 units give the +1D to the Hull, putting an X-Wing's Hull back to 4D, but lesser skilled astromechs do not provide as much of a benefit. And adopting this rule provides a solution for garhkal's dilemma. B-Wings actually have the same base Hull as X-Wings. B-Wings have an extra 1D of shields, but X-Wings have astromechs.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it, and it leaves room for an upgraded B-Wing to be fitted with an Astromech. Furthering the heavy fighter parallel I mentioned above, one of the reasons the P-38 remained viable throughout WWII was that it was continually being upgraded with more powerful engines, along with other enhancements. The source of many of the upgrades was practical experience under combat conditions, so it's an easy assumption that early combat use of the B-Wing would unveil design flaws in need of correction. If the WEG stats are the -a model of the B-Wing, later -b, -c, etc. models could potentially feature improved hull, weapons, speed, etc, including the addition of auto-repair systems and an astromech socket.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gives pilots a reason in combat to want the good astromech.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. Not all astromechs were created equal.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0