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Bwing strangeness
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But i am speaking BTB, not HR area..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
But i am speaking BTB, not HR area..

Well, sounds like you have a problem to solve, then. Either WEG is right, and B-Wings actually aren't that tough and shields don't stop ion cannon, or WEG is wrong. Personally, I found the SWU much easier to navigate when I accepted that WEG's version of the EU wasn't infallible, and I could change it if needed.
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denderan marajain
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My B-wings have a hull of 5D
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

denderan marajain wrote:
My B-wings have a hull of 5D


Big deal. My B-Wing has a refrigerated cup holder for my Lomin Ale, and a Darth Vader bobblehead.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No fuzzy dice?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Na that's in his other ride. an ISD!
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Na that's in his other ride. an ISD!


My ISD is a pimped out lowrider named El Cholo with fuzzy dice on the bridge, a sound system that can be heard 4 parsecs away, and crazy mad murals painted on the hull. Very Happy
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My other fighter is a Sun Crusher.
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nuclearwookiee
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
My impression from the The Star Wars Sourcebook in the 1e days (where these Hull stats came from) was that the X-wing and Y-wing Hulls were higher because they had astromechs that can do in-flight repairs. But they never came out and codified that as far as I remember.


Does this even make sense (I don't mean your impression, Whill, I mean the 1e view itself)? The benefit of an astromech is already obvious--they can, in fact, conduct in-flight repairs. Therefore, also giving these ships a higher hull represents something already accounted for, or "codified," in the rules.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really, though. Yes, there is a Repair skill, but per the RAW, it takes 15 minutes to repair just a Lightly Damaged result. That's 180 combat rounds, which is an eternity in combat.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always liked the 2-2-2-2 system for repairs.. First roll represents 2 rounds. if failed and you need a second roll, that represents 2 minutes. Then 2 hours, then 2 days.... and so on.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness Reply with quote

nuclearwookiee wrote:
Whill wrote:
My impression from the The Star Wars Sourcebook in the 1e days (where these Hull stats came from) was that the X-wing and Y-wing Hulls were higher because they had astromechs that can do in-flight repairs. But they never came out and codified that as far as I remember.

Does this even make sense (I don't mean your impression, Whill, I mean the 1e view itself)? The benefit of an astromech is already obvious--they can, in fact, conduct in-flight repairs. Therefore, also giving these ships a higher hull represents something already accounted for, or "codified," in the rules.

Yes, that's what I meant, but they just didn't come out as say these Hull codes are higher because of the astromech droids, or codified it as a rule that said that if you are flying these ships without an astromech droid your hull code is -1D. So accounting for the astromech droid in the hull rating of those ships may have been the thought process behind that, but they didn't come out and say that. It seemed odd to me that the 1e Sourcebook had were no Hull codes between 3D and 4D. And I just didn't see that the hulls of X- and Y-wings were a full 1D or more better than A- and B-wings. Xs and Ys are in freighter range hulls.

TIE 2D
A-Wing 2D+2
TIE Interceptor 3D
B-Wing 3D
stock light freighter 4D
X-Wing 4D
Y-Wing 4D+1

CRMcNeill wrote:
Not really, though. Yes, there is a Repair skill, but per the RAW, it takes 15 minutes to repair just a Lightly Damaged result. That's 180 combat rounds, which is an eternity in combat.

We're talking about 1e which had a lot less crunch than 2e. Look at astromechs in starfighters in the films. It is totally within the MO of 1e to just add the benefits of "That stabilizer's broken loose, see if you can't lock it down" into the Hull code so not bothering with repair rolls for little things.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
We're talking about 1e which had a lot less crunch than 2e. Look at astromechs in starfighters in the films. It is totally within the MO of 1e to just add the benefits of "That stabilizer's broken loose, see if you can't lock it down" into the Hull code so not bothering with repair rolls for little things.

Didn't you say something recently about the default on the forum being 2E / 2R&E, and that 1E discussions should be grouped under the 1E section?

Apart from that, I agree, and that has long been part of my explanation that Hull did not represent just armor plating and superstructure, but was rather an aggregate of all factors that contributed to a ship's ability to resist damage.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
We're talking about 1e which had a lot less crunch than 2e. Look at astromechs in starfighters in the films. It is totally within the MO of 1e to just add the benefits of "That stabilizer's broken loose, see if you can't lock it down" into the Hull code so not bothering with repair rolls for little things.

Didn't you say something recently about the default on the forum being 2E / 2R&E, and that 1E discussions should be grouped under the 1E section?

No, I said that when someone asks a RAW rules question without stating an edition, by default it should be assumed they are asking about R&E. It was said in response to a 1E guru answering a question with the 1e rule when the asker was asking about R&E. But sure, if someone is posting a new thread with a rules question specifically regarding 1e, it should be in the 1e section.

Whill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
As pointed out over on the Holonet, a Bwing has a LOWER hull than both an Xwing and Ywing, yet is supposed to be a more 'robust' heavy fighter/bomber>

SO has anyone figured out WHY the Bwing has such a low hull?

My impression from the The Star Wars Sourcebook in the 1e days (where these Hull stats came from) was that the X-wing and Y-wing Hulls were higher because they had astromechs that can do in-flight repairs.

Here garhkal is asking why the B-wing has a lower hull than the X- and Y-wings, and I think it's a valid question. My answer was addressing his question and pointed out that my impression dated back to the 1e days when the B-wing and X-wing were first statted out. I feel it is possible that whoever first stated the Rebel starfighters had the astromechs in mind when coding the Hull stats, but since it was never stated as a rule that fighters with astromech sockets that do not have the astromech lose 1D (or whatever) off the Hull, the rationale may have been lost when the game system got more crunchy with 2e.

Another simpler explanation may be that the B-wing has 2D in shields when the X-wing only has 1D. But that evens the it out with the X-wing so the B-wing's hull still seems a bit low to me.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Personally, I found the SWU much easier to navigate when I accepted that WEG's version of the EU wasn't infallible, and I could change it if needed.


So. Apt. For me, the challenge is making changes that don't change the "feel" of the system.

TBH, I do tend to think that the B-Wing should be more on par with the Y-Wing in terms of hull strength. I can live with the A-Wing being less robust if only because it is more agile and faster, and it compensates with jammers (so between those three features, it gets hit less often, if at all).
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