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imperial raider class becomes canon
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The closest I got to that was a potential deception, in that funds and materiel for a "building" was diverted to construction of a capital ship, and that the building itself only ever existed on paper (or its SWU equivalent).
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The closest I got to that was a potential deception, in that funds and materiel for a "building" was diverted to construction of a capital ship, and that the building itself only ever existed on paper (or its SWU equivalent).


Flimsiplast! (Try saying that three times fast! Mr. Green )
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The closest I got to that was a potential deception, in that funds and materiel for a "building" was diverted to construction of a capital ship, and that the building itself only ever existed on paper (or its SWU equivalent).

That makes sense. Or maybe it was just an unsubstantiated rumor. "I heard that the Mon Cals made a building into a starship!"
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evilnerf
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:

Wow.. That's imo stupid, especially since stuff made (often) for PC games are done just to "Look cool" not actually fit in with the genre/other stuff out there.


I think the idea is that they're going to take greater care with the Star Wars video games from here on to make sure they comply with Canon from here on. Whether they will succeed or not is anyone's guess.

Frankly? I never had a problem with this. Video games added a LOT of cool things to the EU. Ruusan, Corellian Gunships, Revan...

These are all things that were created for video games and had a lasting effect on the overall narrative of Star Wars. I can't imagine Star Wars without them.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think video game continuity ruined the EU. It brought in all sorts of utterly ridiculous things such as using the force to crash a star destroyer, the Rebel Alliance being created by Vader, Bail Organa being aboard the Death Star before being killed by it, etc. And the 'reality' of the video games is far removed from the films. The EU canon policy should have just had all video game continuity be non-canon unless used in a canon publication, and even then only as it appeared there.

I hope they are indeed making canon video games not be so silly, but I do not have high expectations that Disney is/will be much better.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never played The Force Unleashed but I knew about Starkiller having a Heel-Face Turn and being the impetus for the 3 pre-Alliance resistance groups joining to form the Rebellion.

But Bail Organa being held as a prisoner aboard the Death Star before it was destroyed? Don't tell me, and he was rescued by Starkiller right? Rolling Eyes

And then his daughter gets captured and held as a prisoner in that very same Death Star. What are the odds? SMH

Man, the Organa family can't catch a break, but then all of Alderaan couldn't catch a break either. But at least that made sense.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
But Bail Organa being held as a prisoner aboard the Death Star before it was destroyed? Don't tell me, and he was rescued by Starkiller right? Rolling Eyes


Don't forget that Starkiller pulled a Star Destroyer from orbit and crashed it into the station.

"Size matters not. Click here and see, you will."
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
I never played The Force Unleashed but I knew about Starkiller having a Heel-Face Turn and being the impetus for the 3 pre-Alliance resistance groups joining to form the Rebellion.

But Bail Organa being held as a prisoner aboard the Death Star before it was destroyed? Don't tell me, and he was rescued by Starkiller right? Rolling Eyes

And then his daughter gets captured and held as a prisoner in that very same Death Star. What are the odds? SMH

Man, the Organa family can't catch a break, but then all of Alderaan couldn't catch a break either. But at least that made sense.

Wookieepedia wrote:
In the year 2 BBY, four individuals who would later become leaders of the Rebel Alliance were transferred to the Death Star: the Senators Bail Organa, Garm Bel Iblis, and Mon Mothma, along with a former Jedi General named Rahm Kota. Palpatine had the four sent to the battle station following their capture on Corellia, planning to have them interrogated and tortured, followed by public execution. This plan was foiled by the former apprentice of Darth Vader, Galen Marek. Galen arrived and attempted to rescue the rebels, and in the end apparently sacrificed himself so the four leaders could escape.

So it seems that Bail Organa was a criminal wanted by the Empire since 2 BBY. But he lives free on Alderaan while his daughter actively serves in the Senate no problem, and Vader only comes to think that she is a traitor in 0 BBY. The Force Unleashed is one of the most idiotic parts of the EU I've ever read about.
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The Force Unleashed is one of the most idiotic parts of the EU I've ever read about.

I could not agree more with this statement. Terrible to even consider that it once had any
bearing whatsoever on some levels of "canonicity" outside of its self-contained in-game continuity.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telsij wrote:
Whill wrote:
The Force Unleashed is one of the most idiotic parts of the EU I've ever read about.

I could not agree more with this statement. Terrible to even consider that it once had any bearing whatsoever on some levels of "canonicity" outside of its self-contained in-game continuity.


TFU certainly looked like a cool game to play, but yeah, its story was complete crap that collapses under the least scrutiny. Bail Organa held prisoner on the Death Star two years before the Battle of Yavin and then escaping from the Empire's most heavily defended space station?

And in the TFU2 novelization Starkiller gets cloned (hooray, he's not dead but he's not really the same guy...or is he? UGH.) and helps the Rebel Alliance to capture Darth Vader alive? Spoiler Alert: Darth Vader escapes. How do we know? Because DUH, he's Saved by Canon!

Say what you will about Disney's caretaking of Star Wars canonicity (and for my part, I think they've done a reasonable job so far), but after finding out about crap like TFU, I can certainly approve of the decision to create a new canon with the Sequel trilogy and wanting to start fresh.

And as much as I loved to play Dark Forces and X-Wing (that depicted the Legends version of stealing the Death Star plans), I have no problem at all with Rogue One being the canon depiction of how the Rebel Alliance got the Death Star plans. Rogue One was an amazing story to behold, especially with its poignant Kill 'Em All ending. The stories in the above video games can't compare to the emotional gut punch that you got from watching Rogue One.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:

And as much as I loved to play Dark Forces and X-Wing (that depicted the Legends version of stealing the Death Star plans), I have no problem at all with Rogue One being the canon depiction of how the Rebel Alliance got the Death Star plans. Rogue One was an amazing story to behold, especially with its poignant Kill 'Em All ending. The stories in the above video games can't compare to the emotional gut punch that you got from watching Rogue One.


I much prefered jedi knight (DF2) and Jedi outcast to the original Dark forces. BUT i didn't really like the Mysteries of the sith expansion they had..
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
... Say what you will about Disney's caretaking of Star Wars canonicity (and for my part, I think they've done a reasonable job so far), but after finding out about crap like TFU, I can certainly approve of the decision to create a new canon with the Sequel trilogy and wanting to start fresh.

And as much as I loved to play Dark Forces and X-Wing (that depicted the Legends version of stealing the Death Star plans), I have no problem at all with Rogue One being the canon depiction of how the Rebel Alliance got the Death Star plans. Rogue One was an amazing story to behold, especially with its poignant Kill 'Em All ending. The stories in the above video games can't compare to the emotional gut punch that you got from watching Rogue One.

I have high hopes for Disney's new canon -- and already much prefer it to the majority of the old EU, tbh. And I appreciate the work Filoni, Pablo Hidalgo, the Story Group et al have done in keeping the new media on track. Rogue One's drama and pathos top conflicting video game narratives any day.

That said, though I wasn't much into the first Dark Forces, like you I LOVED Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight and LOVED X-wing back in the day. And though of course it's all up to you as to what you consider head-canon in your personal RPG SW universe, I for one am glad that I was able to repurpose the Valley of the Jedi / Jerec storyline as the journey-to-knighthood arc for my longest running PC before retiring her a couple of years ago to ride off into the sunset.

Parts of the X-wing campaigns are still compatible with new canon, and it would not surprise me if, say, Keyan Farlander was reintroduced in some "background pilot extra" capacity, as a nod to the old PC games. We already have the TIE Defender and adapted versions of the Dark Troopers playing roles on Rebels after all.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to read that some of you are enjoying the new non-film canon. I'm a little jealous. Overall for me, it seems about the same as the EU...

Sutehp wrote:
TFU certainly looked like a cool game to play, but yeah, its story was complete crap that collapses under the least scrutiny.

Yeah, my comments were in no way directed towards the game as a game. It could be a blast to play. My comments were only in regards to the continuity from the game being a part of the greater EU.

Sutehp wrote:
Say what you will about Disney's caretaking of Star Wars canonicity (and for my part, I think they've done a reasonable job so far), but after finding out about crap like TFU, I can certainly approve of the decision to create a new canon with the Sequel trilogy and wanting to start fresh.

And as much as I loved to play Dark Forces and X-Wing (that depicted the Legends version of stealing the Death Star plans), I have no problem at all with Rogue One being the canon depiction of how the Rebel Alliance got the Death Star plans. Rogue One was an amazing story to behold, especially with its poignant Kill 'Em All ending. The stories in the above video games can't compare to the emotional gut punch that you got from watching Rogue One.

I completely agree with Disney's decision to press the canon reset button. I was clamoring for an "EU2" years before the Disney sale was announced. And I do enjoy TFA and RO more than any work of the EU. However, I strongly disagree that Disney has done a reasonable job with regards to non-film works.

The first error was bringing TCW over the wall. It not only contradicted the EU (which is moot now), but it also contradicts the films when on paper it wasn't supposed to. That was a bad start to the new canon. Then they flush the opportunities they had of not repeating the same mistakes of the EU. For example, TESB makes the most sense and has the most dramatic impact if Cloud City is the first time Vader and Luke come face to face. But then at the very formation of the EU they chose to canonize the old pre-TESB SW sequel novel Splinter in the Mind's Eye, which has Luke (and Leia) lightsaber battling Vader before TESB takes place. Now that SotME is gone from the canon universe what do they do at the end of the new Marvel Star Wars comic book #1? They have Luke confront Vader face to face in between ANH and TESB. In the very first issue!

And then the general policy of being vague about when stories and events take place has continued uninterrupted for the new canon. They think they are protecting themselves from mistakes they might miss, but in actuality the vagueness creates more continuity problems than it solves. They could just say, "This story takes place exactly here, after this and before that." If you follow Nathan Butler's Star Wars Timeline Gold on Facebook, he points out each and every contradiction that comes up in each and every work. They must be so afraid of telling an author "That idea won't work due to X and Y in these other stories" because they don't want to appear as putting dampers on author creativity or appear difficult to work with, which means we basically have a "do almost anything you want" policy in effect for the new canon authors because continuity for the sake of logic and consistency between works is not really their concern.

Disney is mostly just same old, same old with respect to handling non-film publications and shows. The only thing different now is they don't have Lucas' oddball quirky restrictions like "No more Wookiee Jedi" and stuff like that.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
TFU certainly looked like a cool game to play, but yeah, its story was complete crap that collapses under the least scrutiny.


I owned both TFU 1 & 2, and I didn't like them at all. I didn't even finish playing them. Sold them on eBay.

I was expecting something like Knights of the Old Republic. Both of those games were bad @$$. TFU, not so much.
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
For example, TESB makes the most sense and has the most dramatic effect if Cloud City is the first time Vader and Luke come face to face. But then at the very beginning of the EU they chose to canonize the old pre-TESB SW sequel novel Splinter in the Mind's Eye, which has Luke (and Leia) lightsaber battling Vader before TESB takes place. Now that SotME is gone from the canon universe what do they do at the end of the new Marvel Star Wars comic book #1? They have Luke confront Vader face to face in between ANH and TESB. In the very first issue!.


Agreed re: TESB's dramatic impact, if that film's finale being Luke and Vader's first meeting is maintained!
I don't follow the new Marvel run and learning that Marvel has now/again had them meet face-to-face earlier is a shame.

Somewhat further off-topic, Whill, but in your view, is there worthwhile material in the current Marvel Comics
in terms of contributions to larger lore, or are they just "holding serve" between films / tv programs? Worth checking out?


Last edited by Telsij on Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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