The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Astromech Armored Exoskeleton
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech -> Astromech Armored Exoskeleton Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ForbinProject
Commander
Commander


Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:

Using a fighter's repulsorlift is still using the starfighter operation skill though. Not repulsorlift operations..


It shows that skills overlap.

Quote:
That he needs to have that skill in his list..


Not really. It shows that the software skills required to use droid equipment are included in a droids default factory settings. You don't lose those skills when a droid gets a memory wipe.

The same can apply to the exoskeleton. The default factory settings include skills needed to operate it and are included in the price of the exoskeleton. OR skill cartridges can be purchased and installed into the exoskeleton as needed if customization is allowed.

Quote:
Quote:
A droid with a heuristic processor can learn on it's own and use skills it isn't programmed in.


Quote:
In which case, if it has to learn on its own, doesn't that mean it needs CP to improve the skill (Or the owning PC to expend cash to improve it)?


In which case you use the attribute skill for skill checks until the skill is learned (Just like how a GM does when an organic character tries using equipment he doesn't have a skill for), or you buy the program and install it like a cybernetic character like Lobot does.

Quote:
And what source even started the heuristic processor thing anyway? Yes i looked in the grys complete droid collection, and the only droids i saw that had a heuristic processor listed, were mostly combat droids, a litigant droid and the like. All class 4 or better.. Astromechs are class 2, so don't come with them generally.. Though iirc there was a 'named' R4 that got upgraded with one listed..


Heuristic processors have been around since at least the end of the clone wars.

If a GM likes he or she can assume that all higher intelligence droids (class 4 and better) come with heuristic processors, while the less intelligent droids (class 5) only come with basic processors. Just like you pointed out that missing skills need to be added to droid stats, the same applies to heuristic processors.

R8 Astromech Droids
Source: Scavenger’s Guide to Droids (page 128)
New Republic Era

KDY-4 Tech Droids
Source: Coruscant and the Core Worlds (page 109)
Rise of the Empire era

Chiba DR-10 Protocol Droids
Source: Coruscant and the Core Worlds (page 94)
Galactic Empire era

3D-4X Administrative Droids
Source: Arms end Equipment Guide (pages 53-54)
Rise of the Empire era

Heuristic Processor
Sources:
Star Wars Roleplaying Game Revised Core Rulebook (First mentioned)
Star Wars Roleplaying Game Saga Edition Core Rulebook
Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14022
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In which case you use the attribute skill for skill checks until the skill is learned (Just like how a GM does when an organic character tries using equipment he doesn't have a skill for), or you buy the program and install it like a cybernetic character like Lobot does.


Thing is with droids, they don't get to 'Default" to the attribute, if they don't have the skill.. I see nothing in any of the WEG books that states Droids are considered like flesh and blood characters in that regards. BUT i do remember in the base 2e book, it mentioned for droids if they don't have the skill they don't get to roll...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reference or it never happened.

What would be the point of even HAVING attributes for droids if you couldn't default to it?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14022
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, i was mistaken. Its in reference to learning new skills.. Droids cannot learn it on their own, which kinda flies in the face of having herustic processors.. Page 160 base blue book.

Add to that page 235 in the R&E book where it says "Droids may be programmed to excell at one or two tasks or functions at the cost of having the versatility of organics. Due to their highly developed logic circuits, droids lack the intiutive and associative capabilities of many organics."

It is that intuitiave nature OF organics that allows them to default..

Adding to that for me at least, is an organic is limited to building with skills, 2d up from their attribute, droids though can go 4d above..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes more sense.

Perhaps that could be the rule advantage to having a heuristic processor installed in a droid; it can learn and develop skills on its own, like a character, without programming. Non-heuristic droids would default to the RAW for droids.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Brain
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
What skill is used to access the pre-programmed skills? Powersuit Operation?


I would assume the Computer Programming/Repair skill. I beleive R2 units have that as factory standard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14022
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
That makes more sense.

Perhaps that could be the rule advantage to having a heuristic processor installed in a droid; it can learn and develop skills on its own, like a character, without programming. Non-heuristic droids would default to the RAW for droids.


And that's the kicker.. By the WEG core, only certain droids even have them.. And only ONE named Astromech got one.. All other sources where they appear are in WOTC books..
So what would the price and installation difficulty be for putting on in an R2 unit, or any class 2 droid?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first guess would be the WOTC conversion books.

IIRC, we had a discussion about droids a while back, where I posited that all droids above a certain level of complexity had a heuristic processor, but that it had to be turned on or off by the manufacturer at the time of purpose, and that turning it on voided certain aspects of the warranty.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ForbinProject
Commander
Commander


Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
And that's the kicker.. By the WEG core, only certain droids even have them.. And only ONE named Astromech got one.. All other sources where they appear are in WOTC books..


1. For some reason I don't believe you only use source material published by WEG. And even if someone did prefer those self imposed limitations no on else is obligated to do so.

2. Nowhere in the WEG core does it say that droid characters/NPC's cannot have those advanced processors when they are created, or that the processors cannot be purchased later and used to upgrade a droid.

You even destroy your own objections by pointing out that not only are there examples of droids having the processors as part of their factory design, you even confirm that your own research shows droids can get the processor as an upgrade. Razz

Quote:
So what would the price and installation difficulty be for putting on in an R2 unit, or any class 2 droid?


Since I'm unaware of any publisher putting out a complete and detailed price list for everything players may possibly need to buy I'd say the price for a heuristic processor is no more expensive than the least expensive brand new droid that has them as factory installed equipment.

After all we've all seen products in real life where it's cheaper to buy a new one than repair the old one.

Also there's no rules I've found in any source book that states you can't take parts from one model droid and use them on a different model droid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
griff
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"If any of my gears or circuits would help out, i'd gladly donate them." 3P0 a new hope at seeing R2 wrecked.
_________________
"EXECUTE ORDER 67. Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like order 67..... No, wait. Yes, yes it does. EXECUTE ORDER 68" Palpatine's last moments - robot chicken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
Also there's no rules I've found in any source book that states you can't take parts from one model droid and use them on a different model droid.
griff wrote:
"If any of my gears or circuits would help out, i'd gladly donate them." 3P0 a new hope at seeing R2 wrecked.

Not all droids are experts on droid tech and repair. Not all statements made by characters in-universe are necessarily correct. Luke called R5-D4 an "R2-unit".

The Brain wrote:
Whill wrote:
What skill is used to access the pre-programmed skills? Powersuit Operation?

I would assume the Computer Programming/Repair skill. I beleive R2 units have that as factory standard.

But my starship has a computer system - Why can't my astromech droid plug into a starship and use his Computer Programming skill to control the starship? Why can't my human technician use his Computer Programming skill to use the navicomputer to astrogate? Most technology in Star Wars is computerized. Computer Programming is not a catch-all skill that covers controlling any computerized tech.

I also think it's a cheat to say that the skills to control the technologies of an exo-suit are built into the suit.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14022
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:

You even destroy your own objections by pointing out that not only are there examples of droids having the processors as part of their factory design, you even confirm that your own research shows droids can get the processor as an upgrade. Razz


And all of those examples are class 3 or 5 droids, ya know the ones supposed to be smart (like a litigant droid).

Quote:

Also there's no rules I've found in any source book that states you can't take parts from one model droid and use them on a different model droid.


Check out Cynbars.. It has a lot of rules, that seem to indicate its easier to do X on chassis A than if you were to try and put it on Chassis G.. So it stands to reason some items might NOT be 'plug n play' from this droid to that..

Quote:
I also think it's a cheat to say that the skills to control the technologies of an exo-suit are built into the suit.


I feel the same Whill.. It would almost be like saying "i am gonna by that uber super dooper suit of power armor that comes with a automated program running to cover using the power suit skill.."
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ForbinProject
Commander
Commander


Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I also think it's a cheat to say that the skills to control the technologies of an exo-suit are built into the suit.


That was just one of several alternatives I mentioned that could be used by a GM if he chose to allow the use of the exoskeleton.

If you don't like one use one of the others or none.


For example you can buy the software for Powersuit Operations for 200 credits per "D" out of Cynabar's Fantastic Technology - Droids and have it installed in your astromech.

The other skills run...

Brawling Parry 200 per D
dodge 150 per D
melee combat 225 per D
Running 75 per D
Brawling 250 per D
Climbing/Jumping 75 per D
lifting 50 per D
stamina 150 per D
Blaster 225 per D


If your running the droid as a character you follow the rules pertaining to character advancement to get the skills.


Last edited by ForbinProject on Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ForbinProject
Commander
Commander


Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
ForbinProject wrote:

You even destroy your own objections by pointing out that not only are there examples of droids having the processors as part of their factory design, you even confirm that your own research shows droids can get the processor as an upgrade. Razz


And all of those examples are class 3 or 5 droids, ya know the ones supposed to be smart (like a litigant droid).

Quote:

Also there's no rules I've found in any source book that states you can't take parts from one model droid and use them on a different model droid.


Check out Cynbars.. It has a lot of rules, that seem to indicate its easier to do X on chassis A than if you were to try and put it on Chassis G.. So it stands to reason some items might NOT be 'plug n play' from this droid to that..

Quote:
I also think it's a cheat to say that the skills to control the technologies of an exo-suit are built into the suit.


I feel the same Whill.. It would almost be like saying "i am gonna by that uber super dooper suit of power armor that comes with a automated program running to cover using the power suit skill.."



Funny how you choose to ignore your own arguments when they backfire on you.

The "named" astromech you tried to use against this idea is a class 2 droid and is proof that heuristic processors are available to astromechs even if you want to ignore that the R8 astromech comes with that same processor because it wasn't listed in a WEG core book. Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see little reason that any droid couldn't be outfitted with a heuristic processor... it's just some you don't really need them to be.

Mouse Droid? WTF (What the force, obviously) does it need a heuristic processor for? Power Droid? Even line-unit battle droids, there's little point to there being a heuristic processor, and I'd be willing to bet that most Protocol Droids don't bother with them, either.

In fact, I will make a statement: R2-D2 has a heuristic processor. C-3PO does not. Throughout the movies, we see R2 making choices based on more abstract things (such as accepting a message from the Princess to carry to a person at an unknown location on a non-droid-friendly planet, requiring him to violate the rules regarding droids and escape pods), and learning and adapting to new circumstances. 3PO... becomes a better storyteller after 4+ years without a memory wipe. He's still heavily constrained by his programming and seemingly thinks of himself primarily in terms of his model designation. When asked to do a task, he spouts Cybot-Galactica marketing copy, even into Return of the Jedi.

There we go. R2: Heuristic Processor. 3PO: Non-heuristic processor. Fight me.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0