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Handheld Shields
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:

Yes, but you don't have to check for item damage every time you swing a vibroblade or get hit in the armor with a blaster bolt. While there are rules in place to break things... rules I cited with a page reference... normal use of weapons and armor doesn't require a breakage check.


Actually you do. When you wear armor at least. Any time YOU get damaged wearing it, the armor is supposed to also take damage.
Page 95 covers it..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what sizes of shields would result in what bonuses? The Cover system provides bonuses for 25%, 50% and 75% coverage from shields (+1D, +2D and +4D respectively). I could see something the size of a large riot shield or a Roman legionnaire's shield being in the 75% coverage range, but being a little too bulky for effective use as a melee weapon, while a smaller shield ~.5 meters in diameter would provide 25% but be much more effective as an off-hand weapon (bashing with the shield's face, as well as punching with the edge, etc.)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
MrNexx wrote:

Yes, but you don't have to check for item damage every time you swing a vibroblade or get hit in the armor with a blaster bolt. While there are rules in place to break things... rules I cited with a page reference... normal use of weapons and armor doesn't require a breakage check.


Actually you do. When you wear armor at least. Any time YOU get damaged wearing it, the armor is supposed to also take damage.
Page 95 covers it..

This could actually be used as part of a power shield (i.e. energy reinforced). If a shield takes damage because a shot got through and hit the character holding the shield, allow the shield to regenerate up to 1D of damage, although anything above and beyond that is permanent until repaired.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
So what sizes of shields would result in what bonuses? The Cover system provides bonuses for 25%, 50% and 75% coverage from shields (+1D, +2D and +4D respectively). I could see something the size of a large riot shield or a Roman legionnaire's shield being in the 75% coverage range, but being a little too bulky for effective use as a melee weapon, while a smaller shield ~.5 meters in diameter would provide 25% but be much more effective as an off-hand weapon (bashing with the shield's face, as well as punching with the edge, etc.)


This is what i see it as.. going with small, medium and large shields
Buckler/Small shields, 25% cover, 50cm circular. +1d soak. No str required and no impediments to vision or dexterity. 2d+1 body rating for damage.

Medium shields, 50% cover, 75-100cm circular or kite form +2d soak, 2d+2 str needed to weild successfully, -2 pips to all dex skills due to bulk, and -2 pips on vision tests for search/perception rolls from side shield is on. 3d+1 body rating

Large/Body shields, 75% cover, roughly 100cm to 130cm size, often in kite form or rectangular in which case size is 1.2m by 45cm. +4d to soak, 3d+1 str needed, -1d-1 to dex checks, and vision tests to side shield is on. 4d body rating.

CRMcNeill wrote:
This could actually be used as part of a power shield (i.e. energy reinforced). If a shield takes damage because a shot got through and hit the character holding the shield, allow the shield to regenerate up to 1D of damage, although anything above and beyond that is permanent until repaired.


Perhaps if not HIT in a round, the shield can recharge 1d of damage it's sustained... BUT if it takes a severely damaged result, it shuts down.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a buckler being useful as a parrying device, but most bucklers weren't much larger than a dinner plate; there's not 25% worth of cover there.

Also, if using the rules for Cover and Protection for Shield Stats, you don't need separate values for Soak and Body; the amount of damage that gets through the shield is dictated by how well the Body rolls to soak damage.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A more relevant question, IMO, is which type will characters actually use. Shields used to counter a ranged weapon threat in the modern world are armored variants of the large shields, while the smaller shields are found almost exclusively in historical combat demonstrations. They might still be in use in the SWU, but mostly in medieval-grade societies that aren't truly part of the larger SWU.

When you factor in advanced technology, a lot of the disadvantages to carrying a larger shield are either greatly reduced or canceled out entirely. Small and medium shields might still be found among Force users of varying traditions, such as the Kilian Rangers, but the smaller a shield gets, the less useful it becomes insofar as protection from ranged attacks.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, your idea is to 'tech it out' to negate any downsides..?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So, your idea is to 'tech it out' to negate any downsides..?

Rolling Eyes

As opposed to insisting that a handheld shield in a sci-fi space opera must conform to the same limitations imposed on shield usage in a real world scenario?
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Zakuul Knights are way ahead there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkgzXpKbVGE , about 01:28 into it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Zakuul

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/003/007/902/large/alessandro-baldasseroni-zakuul-fullbody.jpg?1468424911

I prefer those tower-style shields to the weirdo shields that the Gungans used. The Gungan shields were more akin to Zulu shields, I feel, except for their size.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
I prefer those tower-style shields to the weirdo shields that the Gungans used. The Gungan shields were more akin to Zulu shields, I feel, except for their size.

Agreed. Without an actual ability to counter ranged weapons' fire, ala Jedi and other Force users, the best option will always be cover, and the more Cover a shield offers, the better.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as some high-tech options, as opposed to just lugging around a massive plate of metal (which we already have in the real world), here are some thoughts:
    1). The power shield (energy reinforced) is an obvious one, and has already made multiple appearances in the films and the TV series.

    2). Shields with holocams built into the face, with a view screen on the inside to counter the obstruction of vision.

    3). Shields with built-in repulsorlifts to offset their weight.

    4). Shields on servo-arms, ala the Aliens Smart-Guns, which place the weight on the character's core, as opposed to their arms, as well as the option of allowing the character to free up their shield arm for other uses.

    5). A Shieldbearer Droid. A tower shield with an integrated repulsor-droid that holds the shield into position as dictated by the owner, leaving the owner free to operate normally.

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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
So, your idea is to 'tech it out' to negate any downsides..?

Rolling Eyes

As opposed to insisting that a handheld shield in a sci-fi space opera must conform to the same limitations imposed on shield usage in a real world scenario?


Well, how many times iN SW have we seen hand-held shields even being used, on screen at least. THe only ones i remember were the gungan shields and they certainly looked unwieldly at times.. As i don't watch any of the cartoons, i can't say if any were used there.
In the novels, the only time i remember was when a character picked up a slab of metal to USE as one against someone using an ax on him.. Then there was that hand (well on the arm) one Prince Isoder used in Courtship of leia. And that still got 'pushed into his face almost, cause it wasn't tricked out..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In what universe is screentime an accurate measure of commonality in the SWU? By that measure, the galactic population is around 90% male / 10% female, no one ever has to use the bathroom, but quite a few planets have Death Stars in orbit.

Rolling Eyes
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a V-shaped shield with possibly a slit on either side for shooting? I'm not thinking a repulsorlift vehicle with something like an oversize glacis, in essence making a movable cover of sorts, but a shield (possibly because you have the technology or resources to make an effective shield, but you don't have the technology or resources to actually make either an AT-PT or some sort of power armor).

With a V-shaped shield, you can get angles on your incoming fire - and you might even be able to interlock shields and advance in a phalanx. Or even A-shaped, where the operator is holding on the crossbar in the A, putting the wedge against the obvious source of incoming fire.

I'm thinking that an actual, physical shield is likely if and when you have access to something like phrik or cortosis - but it is also likely to be quite heavy. Perhaps a cortosis lace or scale-like covering might help.

Of course, that kind of shield would be pretty useless in urban operations, which means that you might be able to collapse the wedge in order to make a double-thick shield of a more traditional configuration.

I like the idea of a skeletonized shield, where you have some sort of internal structure and power emitters but that you actually activate the shield. That follows from the movies, and the Gungan shield (never mind the curves on that shield) as well as the power walls separating Darth Maul from the Jedi.

The virtual reality / augmented reality angle doesn't feel very "starwarsy" for me. Having a strategy table with some sort of holo projector, or pocket-size communicators with holographic avatars? Sure. But using it to augment vision? Eeeh, I'm not convinced. That is the way I think it would be used, but we don't see that in the movies.

I also like the idea of a shieldbearer droid - using droids to deal with stuff is very "starwarsy" for me. I'm thinking a rather spidery droid, that holds something like an umbrella at an angle.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
In what universe is screentime an accurate measure of commonality in the SWU? By that measure, the galactic population is around 90% male / 10% female, no one ever has to use the bathroom, but quite a few planets have Death Stars in orbit.

Rolling Eyes



Wait, i thought YOu were the one who was the big stickler for "if we saw it on screen thus it must be".... Guess when it contradicts your grand views, what's on screen can take a dump in the toilet...

Its to the point nothing i say seems to ever convince you of anything CRM.. So congrats, you are the first person on this site in my entire time here, i am gonna put someone on an ignore list (assuming this site has the functionality for that)..
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