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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Error wrote: |
So what I'm gather is that you're of the mind that slugs as anything other than bullets is hogwash. Yeah, me too.
Still wouldn't change the idea of slugs as described on Wookieepedia being appealing to a given GM though. But you and I have always agreed on GM autonomy. |
From the early days of WEG, "Slug-throwers" meant firearms.. |
Yeah, this is what I always thought, too. What else could "slugthrowers" mean? It's not like there is anyone in the SWU that has weapons that launch mollusks at people!
Well, except for maybe the Yuuzhan Vong... 
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thedemonapostle
Commander
Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 257
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
Heavy machine guns and assault rifles
Assault rifle (M-16, AK-47, SPS-119)
Damage: 5d+1 base
Machine guns.
Light Machine Gun (SAW)
Damage: 5d+1 base (6d+1 burst)
Medium Machine Gun (M-60 AK-83 etc)
Damage: 5d+2 base (6d+2 burst)
Heavy machine guns (SAW, M60, .50)
Damage: 6d base for bursts |
um something smells fishy here in the damages. why? because of the various calibers involved. heres a summary:
M-16: 5.56x45mm
AK-47: 7.62x39mm
M-60: 7.62x51mm
SAW: 5.56x45mm
.50: 12.7x99mm
also,
id get hell from all of my players if i said that a piddly 5.56x45mm SAW did the same damage as a ma deuce. i wouldnt accept it if a gm said that to me, ive fired every weapon on my little list there and theres a huge difference between some of them.
avoid listing real world equivalents or video gamers, military folk, and anyone knowledgeable on firearms will cry havok and argue, much as i am now, until nothing game wise happens.
if you absolutely need to say, hey this is what it is, right down to the specific details of feed trays, magazine types and firing methods, youre gonna have to do more research on ballistics, etc, etc, etc. and even after its all said and done, youll look back on it and shake your head say its wrong, much as i still do 6 years later for my firearms write up, which still sits on the holocron...
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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True, my initial thoughts of what Machine guns count for all 3 groups is probably off, but the general thought is that they are in 3 groups...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Radioactive bullets. That's like the silver nitrate bullets or the UV bullets from the first Underworld movie with Kate Beckinsale. Nasty buggers, indeed. |
Actually, the Rifts RPG used radioactive bullets (listed as uranium bullets instead of depleted uranium) with the special rule that the radioactivity interfered with the fast-healing abilities of super-natural creatures, forcing them to heal the radioactive wounds naturally (and slowly).
Perhaps there is room for a bullet that increases the Diff on healing rolls, or interferes with the effectiveness of bacta or a Force user's accelerated healing?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Czerka T-99 “Rebuker” Light Repeating Slugthrower Ri |
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Some thoughts on the original stat...
Based on my read-through of the stats, you have something of a camel here (a horse designed by a committee).
With the low ammo capacity and limited selective fire, it's on par with a modern assault or battle rifle (an M16 firing 5.56mm would be an example of an assault rifle, while the heavier M14 firing 7.62 NATO would be a battle rifle). However, its sheer size and kick put it more in class with medium machine guns like the M60 or a Barrett Anti-Material Rifle.
The various accessories end up reading like you are trying to make a weapon that excels at just about everything, from long-range marksmanship to assault to CQB, and such a weapon would be far more expensive than just 850 credits.
As far as the accessories themselves, there doesn't seem to be much point in offering three different kinds of bayonets without including some sort of advantage to the different types. For instance, triangular or spike bayonets were known to cause excessive damage and be harder to repair, so adding that as an option would result in both greater damage, as well as possibly an additional +5 Diff to all healing rolls. Just a thought.
If you're interested, here's how I do Auto-Fire:Automatic weapons have an Auto-Fire rating listed under Rate of Fire, expressed as 1D, 2D, 3D or 4D, each representing various "rates".1D = A quick burst of 3-4 rounds.
2D = A more prolonged burst of around 20 rounds.
3D = A long burst of around 100 rounds.
4D = A massive burst of fire, expending 500 rounds in five seconds, this RoF is reserved for gatling-type weapons.
A basic assault weapon (blaster or firearm) would have an Auto-Fire rating of 1D, and would be subject to the same MAP rules as semi-auto weapons.
Fully automatic weapons would have an Auto-Fire rating of 3D, with a Rof of 1, which takes up the whole round, with the option of using shorter bursts of 2D at a RoF of 3.
Super-automatics like gatlings and such would have an Auto-Fire of 4D with a RoF of 1, or shorter 3D bursts with a RoF of 3.
The various Auto-Fire dice ratings can be applied to either Fire Control or Damage, as declared by the shooter prior to the shot, subject to the following restrictions.At Long Range, a minimum of 2D Auto-Fire dice (or 1D for 1D Auto-Fire weapons) must be applied to Fire Control.
At Medium Range, a minimum of 1D Auto-Fire dice must be applied to Fire Control.
So, with this system, your weapon would be looking at an Auto-Fire rating of 1D, with no RoF restrictions apart from standard MAPs. That 1D could be applied to Damage or Fire Control at Point Blank and Short Range, or applied to Damage only at Medium or Long Range. The only drawback is using up ammo more quickly.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Also, if you're interested in some more bullet options, here is my version of the Bolter from Warhammer 40,000.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:37 am Post subject: |
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I just added the accessories as a fun adjunct and I never said anywhere that any of them came with the gun. You'd have to go out and get most of those things at a gun shop/equivalent yourself. Definitely not trying to make an all-gun for anyone that can do everything perfectly, just give pickier players a list of possibilities. But then again, if you spend the money to improve it with those things, who's to stop you?
Also, I've seen pages and pages and pages of mods and types of Mandalorian armor and plenty of other guns in this game with some very customizable things. So why not come up with a list for this gun of available augmentations?
As for three sizes of bayonets, that's because a 40 cm blade is a lot harder to hide than a 20 cm one, its damage would be different (by a pip or two, as written), and also again for the pickier players. And let's be real here...they're knives or spikes on the ends of poles. So if there's going to be different damage for a knife vs. a dagger vs. a stiletto vs. a belaying pin, it follows that bayonets should act similarly. The 40 cm one is only sharpened on one side anyway (creating a glaive, basically). I needed things to set them apart.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:48 am Post subject: Re: Czerka T-99 “Rebuker” Light Repeating Slugthrower Ri |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
The various accessories end up reading like you are trying to make a weapon that excels at just about everything, from long-range marksmanship to assault to CQB, and such a weapon would be far more expensive than just 850 credits.
As far as the accessories themselves, there doesn't seem to be much point in offering three different kinds of bayonets without including some sort of advantage to the different types. For instance, triangular or spike bayonets were known to cause excessive damage and be harder to repair, so adding that as an option would result in both greater damage, as well as possibly an additional +5 Diff to all healing rolls. Just a thought.
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I only just now noticed he added those attachments.
My thoughts is i would limit How many attachments can be added, say 2, at a time. just like with the M4.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | I just added the accessories as a fun adjunct and I never said anywhere that any of them came with the gun. You'd have to go out and get most of those things at a gun shop/equivalent yourself. Definitely not trying to make an all-gun for anyone that can do everything perfectly, just give pickier players a list of possibilities. But then again, if you spend the money to improve it with those things, who's to stop you? |
Frankly, considering how bulky this thing is, not to mention how hard it kicks, most players I know would skip this thing entirely and get a Light Repeating Blaster. Most of the accessories apart from the specialized bullets would be applicable to pretty much any blaster rifle.
| Quote: | | As for three sizes of bayonets, that's because a 40 cm blade is a lot harder to hide than a 20 cm one, its damage would be different (by a pip or two, as written), and also again for the pickier players. And let's be real here...they're knives or spikes on the ends of poles. So if there's going to be different damage for a knife vs. a dagger vs. a stiletto vs. a belaying pin, it follows that bayonets should act similarly. The 40 cm one is only sharpened on one side anyway (creating a glaive, basically). I needed things to set them apart. |
But again, there is nothing distinctly different about the stats of the bayonets. All of this stuff you list off is window dressing that doesn't really affect gameplay; why would a player pick one over the other without concrete rules as to the advantages and disadvantages of a specific type of bayonet over the others?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | I just added the accessories as a fun adjunct and I never said anywhere that any of them came with the gun. You'd have to go out and get most of those things at a gun shop/equivalent yourself. Definitely not trying to make an all-gun for anyone that can do everything perfectly, just give pickier players a list of possibilities. But then again, if you spend the money to improve it with those things, who's to stop you? |
Frankly, considering how bulky this thing is, not to mention how hard it kicks, most players I know would skip this thing entirely and get a Light Repeating Blaster. Most of the accessories apart from the specialized bullets would be applicable to pretty much any blaster rifle. |
The reason it needs to be a slugthrower rather than a repeating blaster are plot-related and enough for me, and are waaay too long to type out here.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | As for three sizes of bayonets, that's because a 40 cm blade is a lot harder to hide than a 20 cm one, its damage would be different (by a pip or two, as written), and also again for the pickier players. And let's be real here...they're knives or spikes on the ends of poles. So if there's going to be different damage for a knife vs. a dagger vs. a stiletto vs. a belaying pin, it follows that bayonets should act similarly. The 40 cm one is only sharpened on one side anyway (creating a glaive, basically). I needed things to set them apart. |
But again, there is nothing distinctly different about the stats of the bayonets. All of this stuff you list off is window dressing that doesn't really affect gameplay; why would a player pick one over the other without concrete rules as to the advantages and disadvantages of a specific type of bayonet over the others? |
The damages are (were) different.
I'm actually 100% fine with "window-dressing" in SWD6. It's not cinematic if you don't make it that way. Let's be real here...in the SWU, where the density of inhabited worlds is so high in a very large galaxy, you're going to be able to find a bayonet in the shape of a dildo if you want it. The same goes for triangular ones, square ones, cylinders, big ones, small ones, extra medium ones, cortosis ones, phrik ones, vibro-ones,...see where I'm going here?
So bayonets that do different damage based on their size are available for my fictional weapon here whether another rule exists for each one or not. My players can be the selective force behind the continuation of different types. I see no reason not to continue with it as-is, though I will remove the bayonets from the OP so nobody has to see any unpleasant window-dressing. There we go. Now the only things "available" for the fictional Czerka T-99 are the same things available to just about every other gun in the galaxy. As for the list of accessories itself, you guys need to go back and look at it. Without the different sizes of bayonets being listed, it's not long. And even with the bayonets it was still pretty short. We have, available for this fictional Czerka T-99 light repeating slugthrower:
- 3-4 different ammo types
- a tripod
- a scope
- a laser sight
- a flashlight
- a bayonet
So what's the problem? You could put every single one of those listed accessories on the rifle, plus a 2 meter bayonet, and it still wouldn't be an item that breaks the game.
However, as garhkal has noted, the number of accessories per rifle should probably be limited. I say this is true too, but it all depends on what the player wants. If he or she wants three bayonets for it, obviously that can't happen. But if he or she wants a bayonet, a scope, a tripod, and a flashlight, why the f*ck should he or she not be able to do that? Because it's been done a different way since god was a kid by some guys on an internet forum? I'm sorry, but that reason is insufficient for me and not in the spirit of the game (IMHO). I don't mean to be insulting at all, just realistic about why I don't take anything here at face value.
EDIT: I do really like your auto-fire stuff above, though I probably won't be using it. I'll probably just word the repeating clauses the way they always have been (it's easier for me, and once again, less charts) and let the game play out without any specific rules for auto-fire (beyond any in the RAW, that is).
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | If he or she wants three bayonets for it, obviously that can't happen. But if he or she wants a bayonet, a scope, a tripod, and a flashlight, why the f*ck should he or she not be able to do that? Because it's been done a different way since god was a kid by some guys on an internet forum? I'm sorry, but that reason is insufficient for me and not in the spirit of the game (IMHO). I don't mean to be insulting at all, just realistic about why I don't take anything here at face value.
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Because there's not enough space for adding all those 4. Where the tripod would attach is the same spot the bayonett goes. The scope can be mounted top side, and the flashlight as a side mount. BUT you then get into over-weighted to one side or the other, which would add penalties to shoot..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | The reason it needs to be a slugthrower rather than a repeating blaster are plot-related and enough for me, and are waaay too long to type out here. |
When you post a stat here, responses will generally be from the perspective of how that stat fits into the Star Wars D6 gaming universe. If you are going to insist this camel-cannon be a slugthrower without giving us the background as to why, then don't be surprised if the suggestions you receive aren't helpful, because this thing doesn't fit well into the SWU in general.
Ultimately, what you have here is an overly-complicated, over-powered stat for something I'm not interested in including in my SWU, which you are going to defend vociferously because "this is how I want to do it." Enjoy.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | The reason it needs to be a slugthrower rather than a repeating blaster are plot-related and enough for me, and are waaay too long to type out here. |
When you post a stat here, responses will generally be from the perspective of how that stat fits into the Star Wars D6 gaming universe. If you are going to insist this camel-cannon be a slugthrower without giving us the background as to why, then don't be surprised if the suggestions you receive aren't helpful, because this thing doesn't fit well into the SWU in general.
Ultimately, what you have here is an overly-complicated, over-powered stat for something I'm not interested in including in my SWU, which you are going to defend vociferously because "this is how I want to do it." Enjoy. |
Man I feel like I offended you again. Ugh  Please don't take me at face value...I am a very flawed human being and it comes up from time to time. Or ignore me if I really do suck that bad (totally possible and understandable).
The first line of the OP read:
I need a big slugthrower rifle for a fanfic I'm working on, and this is what I came up with. I also want to make it available to players, so please help me make this fair and balanced. This is my rough draft, by no means a finished product:
So I guess I was pretty ambiguous about what I was looking for and forgot that.
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: |
You know what else would be sweet? Rail guns. As in character-scale rail guns. No gunpowder, no flash of blaster smoke, just a quiet FOOOMP sound and the projectile is en route, traveling at Mach 7. Plus, rail guns with full-auto capabilities would be absolutely insane. Has anyone tackled them as a concept or attempted to do a write-up on them? As it stands, I think personal-scale railguns are the wave of the future, after the technical issues are dealt with. |
Sorry, after reading the whole thread, this was the thing that jumped out at me and demanded comment.
Rail guns most definitely are not quiet.
When firearms are discharged the muzzle blast makes noise, but it's not really the only noise...the speeding projectile does as well. It's the supersonic bullet travelling through the air that is responsible for the very loud 'crack' noise; a sonic boom.
A rail-gun's projectile, would have no muzzle blast sound, but the travelling faster than sound would create the same very loud 'crack' when travelling through the air. |
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ForbinProject
Commander
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Posts: 318
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | Sorry, after reading the whole thread, this was the thing that jumped out at me and demanded comment.
Rail guns most definitely are not quiet.
When firearms are discharged the muzzle blast makes noise, but it's not really the only noise...the speeding projectile does as well. It's the supersonic bullet travelling through the air that is responsible for the very loud 'crack' noise; a sonic boom.
A rail-gun's projectile, would have no muzzle blast sound, but the travelling faster than sound would create the same very loud 'crack' when travelling through the air. |
Not according to existing weapon descriptions in Star Wars sourcebooks.
Verpine Shatter Gun
The Verpine Shatter Gun is built around a miniature and highly advanced magnetic coil. Miniature alloy projectiles are accelerated through the coils, dramatically increasing their velocity. The result is a virtually soundless weapon that produces kinetic damage far out of proportion to the size of the ammunition being used.
The drawbacks to this remarkable invention are its cost and the delicacy of the weapons components. This specialized weapon is especially vulnerable to breakdown if not handled correctly. Still in the right hands it is a devestatingly powerful weapon with a very long effective range
Model: Verpine Shatter Gun
Type: Magnetic accelerator weapon
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Verpine shatter gun
Ammo: 100
Cost: 30,000, 1,000 (ammo)
Availability: 4, F, R or X
Body: 1D
Range: 50-400/900/1.5 km
Damage: 6D
Game Notes: If the shatter gun is jarred, dropped or otherwise banged in any significant manner, roll damage against the weapon’s body.
Source: Galladinium’s Fantastic Technology (pages 91-92)
And from the Wookipedia
Verpine shatter guns were handheld projectile weapons produced by the Verpine. They ranged in size from small handguns to powerful sniper rifles. The weapon was based on a magnetic field principle, similar to a rail gun. When shot, the weapon would make no sound, but would cause great kinetic damage despite the small caliber pellet it fired.
Of course like many things in Star Wars there's a lot of handwavium going on, so in games you are running feel free to apply real world science wherever you like. |
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